New to the list. Questions about the "Dark Side"

[Greg Hilyer]

Hello all. I'm new to the list and come in search of info from the experts about the "Dark Side" - the underside of my Tiger #B9472470 LRX FE. After more hours than I care to think about, I've completed the metal work of floor replacement. Now on to the details. Although the car won't be seeing any concourse fields [at least in my ownership] I have no desire to finish the underbody the "wrong" way, and need some input. While the floor replacement was undoubtedly necessitated by decades of leaky top syndrome, the rest of the unibody is actually quite nice. After painstakingly removing three distinctly different layers of undercoating [that did their job nicely], I'm down to the original red-oxide primer. During the archeology of stripping it all off, I'm left with questions. It looks as though there was never any body color over the primer - just undercoating. The only body color seems to have been overspray from subsequent repaints which was then covered with another layer of undercoating. So my questions are 1 - Did the car leave the factory with undercoating or was it applied by the dealer? And 2 [depending on the answer to 1], what is the acceptable "correct" finish for the "dark side"? Thanks in advance. I will look forward to any and all replies. Greg "Lunker" Hilyer, Albuquerque NM

 

[jumpinjan]

Lunker,
Welcome aboard. Yes, the use of the phrase "Dark Side" should represent the dirty & grimy underside of the car; I accept that as a good term for it.
I have noticed the same thing on the Alpines and I think I see it more on the later production units (I think Rootes wanted to get the cars off the assembly line as fast as possible).
And the early Alpine models typically have more body color everywhere.
Jan

 

[havealucky]

Underside paint?

Greg,

I'm pretty sure the undercoating was not a factory issue. When I did my Tiger dark side I'm remembering the body colour was evident above the red primer although the mists of time may be an influence.

I did the underside with POR 15 so far and am thinking of a topcoat of body colour. It'll be interesting to see what others say.

Taking the undercoat off was an unpleasant job. If I had to do it again I would drop the rear end as it is hard to get in around the rear bulkhead. At the same time it saved the car from an early death.

Your Tiger is quite a bit later than mine at 9470694 so Jan may be on to something there.

Regards,

Tim

 

[65beam]

undercoating

undercoating was an option that almost all dealers sold for many years .another item was rustproofing . both were high profit to the dealer. i remember selling many dealers on our undercoating program thru quaker state . i also sold a different version to fruehauf trailer company for use on their trailers . also quaker .i doubt if many cars of any make came thru with undercoating from the factory . there was such a market for undercoating and rustproofing that several companies such as rusty jones and ziebart popped up to sell this service to the public.i know that my series 4 was done at the dealer .

 

[Greg Hilyer]

To coat or not to coat?

I'm somewhat surprised by the lack of any definitive answers regarding my questions about the underbody of my [or any] Tiger. While doing my homework, I recently re-read the July '78 edition of Road&Track. Used Car Classic in that issue was co-written by Thos Bryant and none other than William Carroll. One telling paragraph reads in part, "In examining the body, it becomes apparent that the unitized construction made for a sturdy car {that} holds up quite well... Sunbeam did a good job of undercoating the Alpines and even the early examples shouldn't show much rust". I am going to assume Tiger was meant to be included in that sentence.
Regarding 65beam's dissertation on the history of undercoating/rustproofing:
Having been in the auto industry since '74, I'm well aware of the money making angle of selling add-on protection systems. However, until leaving the NW, I had never seen a british car that had been undercoated other that to hide ugly stuff. That includes literally hundreds of brit cars including a couple Alpines of my own [sold a few Tigers in that time but never had occasion to look under them - after driving them, my pupils were too dilated to really see much!]. Anyway, most "honest" cars weren't undercoated. And, my Tiger never had body color directly on top of the primer. I can not imagine that my red car [or blue, white, black etc.] left the factory with red oxide primer showing in the fender-wells and everywhere else underneath. My conclusion is that my car did indeed leave the factory with tar. Jumpinjan likely has it right [I've got a hunch that this is not unusual] in that the process changed in relation to demand. And perhaps the issue is specific to Tigers given their "jumps" on and off of different production lines.
Perhaps rephrasing my question will help - What IS the concourse acceptable finish for the "dark side"? I have halted my work in that area pending some kind of confirmation. As a result of my surgical cleaning, I've come across many interesting [to me a least] details: The accuracy and distinctive markings of the spot welds, bends and flanges obviously made with a hand brake [bender] and the fingerprints of the guy that installed the body putty [seam sealer] way back when. As much as I hate to cover these details up with a fresh coat of undercoating, that is likely what I will do unless guided otherwise.
Still seeking helpful advise,
Greg "Lunker" Hilyer
Albuquerque NM

 

[alpine_64]

Greg,

It's my understanding that the Alpines and Tigers were finshed with body colour on their undersides. If you look at road test reports even on SV cars that were white you can at least see that the wheel wells were body colour (harder with dark coloured cars and B/W photos).

Now as for underseal/rustproofing... an interesting situation in our club here in AU. A 1 family owner S3 is being restored (autumn gold) the car has never been resprayed. The current owner bought it from his brother to restore (keep it in the family) upon starting to strip the underside they found underseal UNDER the paint. has raised a few eyebrows round the club.

 

[alpine_64]

BTW Greg.. if you are building a factory concourse Tiger... i would be asking Norm Miller what he hinks is right for your car, i'd say you would at least have a good candidate to back you up going with his verdict.

 

[Greg Hilyer]

upon starting to strip the underside they found underseal UNDER the paint. has raised a few eyebrows round the club.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Michael alpine-64
In my original post, that is what I found - body color over undercoating over the factory primer. Having no way of knowing if the body color was from re-paint or per factory is what lead me to this list.
Curious-er and curious-er.
I do plan to ask Norm Miller via e-mail but am trying to get my ducks in order first.
Lunker