New rebuild, I may soon have problems!

[Bill Blue]

Stop leak materials are supposed to harden upon contact with air. At least that was the word put out by Bars Leak 50 years ago. I have used stop leak materials (mostly Bars Leak) for minor leaks and have never had any problems.

I think the secret is to use one can per application. I ran into a guy several years ago who told about his father plugging up the radiator in his Rambler. Put a bottle of Bars Leak in the radiator 4 times a year. This went on for a couple of years. Started overheating and when they pulled the radiator, it was plugged and full of Bars Leak!!! Who would of thought?

I think that kind of nonsense is what gave the product a bad rap.

Bill

 

[Duke]

I would re torque the head bolts until they do not move. Meaning, if any bolts are still moving when you are re torqueing to 45 lbs, come back and do them again in a week and continue until there is no movement of the bolts to 45 lbs. 45 seems very low to me too but I don’t know the Alpine engine.

Preparing an aluminum head to be mated to a cast iron block is critical in gasket seal. Due to the difference in expansion rates of the aluminum vs. iron (aluminum expands 1.7 times faster than cast iron when they get hot), you actually WANT the aluminum head to be able to slide on the head gasket. The following are great articles on how to prep an aluminum head. They are well worth the read.


BLUF - The head needs to have a 50 to 60 RA (roughness average)

http://www.aa1car.com/library/ar996.htm

http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/ic010532.htm

http://www.artsautomotive.com/machineservices.htm

http://www.valvedirectory.com/valve_04122006.html

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us80222.htm

I went through a very expensive education on this when I turbocharged a BMW six cylinder which had an aluminum head.

 

[SIVAllan]

Here's what I do and it seems to work, but be warned I am a total rookie prone to try things others find heretical .

Use the copper gasket spray on both sides of the head gasket.

Torque to 46 pounds, if not to 48.

Do not re torque.

Modern gaskets don't require a re torque.

So far I've had excellent results - no blown head gasket anyway. Longest trip so far was Atlanta to Tipp City, but also drove to the gulf coast.

I burned 2 valves in April, replaced the head and head gasket, and intend to drive to SUNI as per the above advice.

If the head gasket blows, well you told me so. If not, ... ??

 

[Green67Alpine]

Andrew, If in fact you need to replace the head gasket try the Payen(sp) one, Rick at SS told me it was the the original type and after two black and silver ones this copper and silver style has been solid on my SV. Just my experience but head gaskets just aren't much fun to replace.

Tom j

 

[Andrew]

Hi guys,
Thank for all the information and comments.
This is the type of head gasket that I used. I also used a spray copper coat on each side.

I have been crazy busy trying to keep life on the right track so I have yet to take a look at the car and the problem.
I hope to do this tonight and I will report back. I hope all of this may be of help to others.

Regards,
Andrew

 

[Green67Alpine]

That's the one that's been successful in my SV.
Good Luck
Tom j

 

[RootesRooter]

That's quite a lot of fresh fluid in that pocket. You should be able to see the source with the engine running and warmed up. Do try a pressure testor next. Don't bother re-torquing the head. If the gasket is shot, the gasket is shot.

 

[Ken Ellis]

You might try using a black light to trace the source. According to our Google friends, some antifreeze has fluorescent additives to make it glow under black light. A good cleaning, followed by a warm-up sequence performed in darkness under black light may show seepage or misting from the problem area. Bulbs should be commonly available... or just go to your local college.

Ken

 

[am99ey]

A mechanic told me a dodge he uses especially when leakage around the hoses occur. He takes a bunch (the amount of 2 or 3 burned cigarettes buts) of pepper (black) capsicum and crunch them in the palm with your thumb. Add this rather rough powder to the coolant. The fine bits will clog and thus seal the finest gaps in the cooling system.
He mentioned this as a temporary solution, leakage always needs more serious attention (how right he is..).
Anyone had experience with this one?
Andy

.

 

[puff4]

Never heard of that one, Andy, but there's the classic antique car solution of cracking a raw egg into the radiator to seal the leaks. Or cornmeal. Surprisingly, they do work.

 

[65beam]

problems

i worked evenings at the local GULF station while in high school and saw the owner use pepper many times in order to stop leaks . there were a lot of other remedies also but would we try them on todays motors ?

 

[alpine_64]

Never heard of that one, Andy, but there's the classic antique car solution of cracking a raw egg into the radiator to seal the leaks. Or cornmeal. Surprisingly, they do work.

kevin.. its just the egg white you put in isn't it? Either way.. not something i would want to do unless i was forced too to get home. I did once compression locl my motor in the CBD in Melbourne ona busy friday night.. gasket shreaded between water jacket and chamber.. the amount of water in the headers was unreal.

 

[Jim E]

Andrew,
Were it me would drain/save the coolant mixture and refill with just water, only for as long as it takes to figure out the leak. Just makes for less mess and nicer to work on when you open up what ever it is that is leaking. That and if it something that is going to let go and spew the radiator contents again it is much less mess.

 

[Andrew]

Andrew,
Were it me would drain/save the coolant mixture and refill with just water, only for as long as it takes to figure out the leak. Just makes for less mess and nicer to work on when you open up what ever it is that is leaking. That and if it something that is going to let go and spew the radiator contents again it is much less mess.

Hi Jim,

As always a very good idea, I may to this tonight. I tightened down all of the hose clamps and hope that was the problem. I had some problems with the new carb/rebuild but have her on the road now. She runs a little tough when just sitting but on the road she runs very well. I think I may try and find a colortune in hope that I can get her running a little better. I took her to work today after trying a few things last night. I will see how things are today with the coolant. How critical is the engine block prepping? I am sure the block was clean and smooth. After cleaning I didn't give the top of the engine/block any type of "tooth" in order for it to grab the head gasket. Should I have given it a rough sanding prep??

I have to extend a great deal of thanks to you Jim. The car has a pile more power and is so much more fun to drive. Between the tranny being fixed from flying out of 2nd and 3rd and her staying cool with the new rad, oil cooler, custom fan and timing cover mod, she is almost ready for a new splash of paint.

Hey Dennis! The custom fan blade is a great mod. I will provide some photos back to you soon.

Thanks guys,
Andrew

 

[MikeH]

A mechanic told me a dodge he uses especially when leakage around the hoses occur. He takes a bunch (the amount of 2 or 3 burned cigarettes buts) of pepper (black) capsicum and crunch them in the palm with your thumb. Add this rather rough powder to the coolant. The fine bits will clog and thus seal the finest gaps in the cooling system.
He mentioned this as a temporary solution, leakage always needs more serious attention (how right he is..).
Anyone had experience with this one?
Andy

.

I have actually used black pepper to seal a leak in a '71 Pinto. It worked surprisingly well.

 

[Jim E]

Don't know that rough sand paper would make any difference. fpr what you did just a sand with some middle of the road grit to get you to just clean metal and a good cleaning is about all I supose you could do. Pretty much the same for the head. You did put a straight edge on the head right? or did you do a valve job?

 

[Andrew]

Don't know that rough sand paper would make any difference. fpr what you did just a sand with some middle of the road grit to get you to just clean metal and a good cleaning is about all I supose you could do. Pretty much the same for the head. You did put a straight edge on the head right? or did you do a valve job?

Hi Jim,

I just did a real good clean job, check the head and block (yes I used a straight edge and checked the head). I didn't do a valve job as I thought things look good to go.

The top of the engine was not al that dirty so all I did was use some middle of the road sand paper, cleaned things up etc.

I will check things again tonight and report back.
Thanks for the communication, it sure is nice being able to talk to you guys.

Andrew

 

[Jim E]

Hopefully it is just a leak around the thermostat housing gizmo. Did you take it off the head while it was apart? THe two long studs that go thru it usually sieze and require heat to get off. Do not pry on the housing or you will ruin it almost for sure. You can lap the flat surface of the housing on a piece of flat counter top if you do not have a lapping block. Tape some oh 320 or so to the counter top and sand the housing keeping it pressed flat and not rocking it while you stroke. You can start with a rougher grit and go fine or start finer grit what ever works for you to get it flat.

Then if the leak is not at the housing or a hose or some such and it is the H/G it seems a little odd from where the leak is but if it comes down to that being the problem I would run a can of KW block seal thru it and follow the instructions on the can.

 

[Andrew]

I would run a can of KW block seal thru it and follow the instructions on the can.

Hi Jim,

I took the car out for a good run last night after I tightend all of the hose clamps in the location where I see the coolant.
At first I thought I had the fix but after quite a long run in the car and after the car sitting (running) in the drive I began to see a small amount of coolant in the same location.

When I did the rebuild I did not remove the thermostat housing gizmo from the head as I know all to well that they can be a problem.

It took a good 45mins before I started to see the coolant showing in the same area. I only assume the I must have cleaned or polished the top of the block and head too smooth???? As you can see by this comment, it is all new to me.

Is the KW Block seal similar to Bar's Leaks Head Gasket Fix?
I will check and see if I can find the KW product.

Regards,
Andrew

 

[Duke]

I only assume the I must have cleaned or polished the top of the block and head too smooth????

Go back to my earlier post and actually read the articles. This will answer your question.