New member in Alabama in need of lot of help

[ladybeamer]

Hello!
I'm new to the SAOCA. Just got my first Alpine, thought it was a 61 series 2 but the numbers say it's series 1. My car needs lots of engine work I'm afraid and I'll be looking to you guys for as much info as you'll give me.
I don't know much about these cars, I saw one years ago at a show and fell in love with it. I found this one while surfing ebay one night and bought it site unseen. I want to get this going with my daughter and teach her that girls can work on cars also.
It was shipped from California. The guy I bought it from said it ran but upon getting it home and putting a new battery in I can't get it to turn over. What I think is the solenoid makes a clicking noise. I've attached a picture of the car and the part making the clicking noise.
I'm not sure if I should post on the purist or the modified forum. I'm not a pure purist, I'll leave as much original as possible but I want it to run, run well and be as dependable as possible. I don't want to make major changes like a totally different engine, but I do want to change the interior color scheme. I will make any changes needed to get it mechanically sound though.
Which forum should I post to?
I live in Daphne AL if there are any sunbeam people in the area that would like a challenge.
I look forward to learning from all of you, Caroline

 

[SIVAllan]

Hi Caroline,

And I'm glad to hear about your new car .

Forum, I got to see Caroline's car in person and it is a beauty.

What a nice car, so very clean.

I was lucky enough to see it during its journey to the Gulf coast.

Allan

 

[ladybeamer]

Hey Allan

Hello Allan,
It was great meeting you. Hope your car is on the mend. I guess as I get back into the old British cars I might need to keep a trailer hooked to the truck, just in case....
I did get my daughter, Harley, under the car to look around (pic attached). She of course is more concerned when it will be running, what color to paint it and what to do with the interior. Not so much concern with how to get it running, just wants to know when it will be running. I guess since she just turned 16 she's under the idea that mom will let her drive it-silly girl.
I'm hoping you're correct that some of the guys (or ladies) can help me get this running. My hubby was not impressed when he saw it. He's a new car guy and doesn't like turning wrenches. Luckily he accepts my love of motorcycles and cars. I don't think he's thrilled that I'm trying to pass it on to the wee one.

 

[Bill Blue]

Caroline, that is the solenoid. It is supposed to click. When it does, a piece of copper inside the solenoid is slammed against the two posts, sending current to the battery. Sometimes it does not work properly, more often the wires get loose or corroded. So try this:

Make sure all the heavy wires leading to and from the switch are fastened securely and are not corroded. One goes to the starter, the other to the battery. Check the connections there, also. If the engine still refuses to turn over, place a metallic object across the posts. The end of a large adjustable wrench should work nicely. That bypasses the solenoid and sends current directly to the starter. If the starter activates, you have a bad solenoid. If not, you most likely have a problem with the starter.

Welcome to the Sunbeam world. Looks like you have a nice one.

Bill

 

[puff4]

Caroline, that is the solenoid. It is supposed to click. When it does, a piece of copper inside the solenoid is slammed against the two posts, sending current to the battery. Sometimes it does not work properly, more often the wires get loose or corroded. So try this:

Make sure all the heavy wires leading to and from the switch are fastened securely and are not corroded. One goes to the starter, the other to the battery. Check the connections there, also. If the engine still refuses to turn over, place a metallic object across the posts. The end of a large adjustable wrench should work nicely. That bypasses the solenoid and sends current directly to the starter. If the starter activates, you have a bad solenoid. If not, you most likely have a problem with the starter.

Welcome to the Sunbeam world. Looks like you have a nice one.

Bill

Caroline, a slight update on Bill's note... the solenoid is supposed to send current from the battery to the starter... when you operate the key switch and try to 'start' the car it sends power to the solenoid and the electromagnet inside does the slamming of the plate into the two internal contacts and thereby sends power through the thick wires to the starter. By jumping the solenoid's two poles together you are essentially mimicking what the key switch would have done.

And as for jumping the solenoid's connections with a wrench or metallic object, yes, that works, but make sure it's one you don't really care about since the arcing may burn the metal somewhat. There will be sparks when you do this, but they're harmless. Also, be sure the car's out of gear when you try this.

One thing you may want to check first, though.. many solenoids have a button on their back that you can press in and thereby push the plate into the contacts... this will save you jumping it with a metallic object.

Bill is correct - check all your connections, since this is often the cause. Also, if your battery is flat it will commonly give you that fast 'clicking' sound when you use the key switch to start the car. This sound is the electromagnet inside the solenoid trying to pull the plate into the contacts and send power to the starter, and when it does the battery current falls due to the starter load and causes the electromagnet not to have enough power and it then releases... and this happens repeatedly making that 'clicking' noise.

 

[TulsaAlpine]

Wahoo another Lady Sunbeamer!

Hello Caroline,
Girl friend we got a lot in common, husband likes the new cars, no work and my daughter is long gone but still thinks "Vicki" the Alpine was suppose to be HER car, WRONG! I got a neat little sticker on the bumper that says, "Built with my children's inheritance" that curled her toes when she saw that, LOL.
I am not a mechanic but the guys here will answer your questions, with my husband's help and this forum we keep old Vicki running.

Donna

 

[Series6]

Caroline,

Welcome.

 

[ladybeamer]

Bill and Kevin,
Thanks for the info. As soon as the torrential down pours stop I'll check.
One question though-do I need to have someone turn the key when I jump the solenoid or does the jumping totally bypass the key turn?
I checked and there's no button on it to push.
As you can see in the picture posted earlier, there are LOTs of wires coming off it. There is a brown one that looks like a lamp cord- with two wire inside-and one sire is totally broken.
Is there a place to order a completely new or redone wiring harness with fuses etc.? The wiring looks quite original and I'd like to just completely redo it. Would it be better to get rolls of wire and connectors?
Should I be posting these questions on a different forum? If so, which one-purist or modified?
thanks,
C

 

[66Tiger]

ladybeamer,
Nice looking Alpine...looks like a keeper!

Don't change the color combo...black with a red interior (I love red interiors)...very regal looking.

But you just need some chrome wire wheels on it!

Good luck and looking forward to more pictures and updates on progress made.

Paul

 

[mikephillips]

I noticed you seem to have a lot more wires off your solenoid than would normally be there, bet someone was using it as a power source for broken wires or extras. And if you have hardware store lamp type wire, I have to wonder what else in the harness may not be up to spec. You can get a new harness, fuse box, etc. Try searching for Sunbeam Specialties, they're in California, and it should cost about $250 for a new harness. Since they're pretty basic cars and using a good wiring diagram it can be done in a couple afternoons. Buy new grommets too, they probably need replacing to keep the wires from wearing on the metal hole edges.

As for bridging the solenoid terminals, you don't have to have the key on unless you're trying to start it. The cable coming from inside the body is direct to the battery so by bridging the terminals what you're doing is creating a path from the battery to ground by way of the starter.

BTY in case you didn't know a series 1 is normally a positive ground auto.

 

[sunalp]

Thanks Mike, I was just about to add that you have to make sure you have the battery hooked up correctly, and Series 1's were indeed positive ground.
Caroline,
Welcome to the wonderful world os SUNBEAMS!

Cheers!
Steve

 

[puff4]

One question though-do I need to have someone turn the key when I jump the solenoid or does the jumping totally bypass the key turn? I checked and there's no button on it to push.

If you just want it to turn over, no, you can just jump the two big terminals on that solenoid. However, if you want it to actually start running you'd best switch on the key (to the 'run' position, not 'start').

As you can see in the picture posted earlier, there are LOTs of wires coming off it. There is a brown one that looks like a lamp cord- with two wire inside-and one sire is totally broken. Is there a place to order a completely new or redone wiring harness with fuses etc.?

There should be no lamp cord - that's non-standard and I have no idea what it goes to... best to trace the wire and sort out what someone's bodged up. As for buying a new harness, yes, most of the major Sunbeam parts dealers can get you a harness, or you can get a generic harness from Painless Performance. I am an originality freak, so I'd opt for the orignal harness with properly coloured wires... YMMV. But you may not even need that... likely as not someone has just done some 'creative' wiring and you may well be able to reverse their modifications and keep your current harness.

The wiring looks quite original and I'd like to just completely redo it. Would it be better to get rolls of wire and connectors?

Only if you like really big puzzles. And smoke.

Should I be posting these questions on a different forum? If so, which one-purist or modified?

Kinda depends.. probably best to go with stock Alpine, but this works.

 

[Bill Blue]

My 2 cents worth on the wiring. If you intend to drive the Alpine without a bunch of after market electrical stuff installed, stay with the original equipment wire kit. It is much simpler, although not as robust.

If you decide you need to install landing light type driving lights, a big stereo, etc, by all means get a generic after market kit. The EZ kit will cost about $175 and seems to be as good as the Painless, although not as painful to the pocketbook. You will find these much more difficult to install, but as far as I know, everyone that has attempted one has succeeded.

Yes, the Series I cars were positive ground, but it may have been converted. At this point, the way the car is grounded is immaterial. All you need right now is a GOOD ground.

Bill

 

[Ron67Alpine]

Hi Caroline, and welcome from a new Alpine owner.
Mike I think the heavy brown wires, she's refering to are the main power wires. At least the brown power wires on my SV also look like hardware store wiring, except not as flexable.
Ron

 

[ladybeamer]

moving to modified

You guys are such a great help, thank you. I think I'd better move all my questions to the Modified forum. I'd go to the purist but I can't promise I won't be making changes that might make a purist cringe. I have so many questions I don't want to get in trouble for miss using the chat forum.
Give me 30 minutes and I'll have a thread started called Caroline's Project.
I'll have some more pictures and lots of questions.

Thanks,
C

 

[Bill Blue]

Caroline, this board uses a sort of strange definition of "purist". If you are struggling to keep an Alpine 4 banger on the road, almost regardless of the parts you use, you will be right at home in the "Purist" section. The "Modified" section is aimed more at engine swaps and racing mods to the Alpine 4.

Bill

 

[ladybeamer]

Oops

Thanks for the explanation. I posted in the modified area but I'm not planning on major modifications. I just want the car to run reliably. that might be asking a lot from a 48 year old car but hopefully I can do it.
I guess maybe I should redirect it to the purist area. I thought purist would keep all original and I don't think I'll be able to do that.
C

You don't happen to know if there are any Sunbeamers in the Gulf area of AL, FL, or MS? Or know of any shops in the area?