Nano Nano Tata

[skywords]

Well I've been waiting for someone else to comment on the worlds cheapest car. But I guess I'll start. Good for Tata! I hope it is a smashing sucess. 50 mpg/four seats and a $2500.00 price tag. Not bad. Why can't we have a peoples car?
I don't want airbags, roll cage, side impact bars, different dash, fenders etc.. every year so we have to pay for wasted tooling. I want an affordable 50mpg peoples car.

And 50mpg with no hybrid batteries Ya that's what I'm talking about!!!

Why do other countries have all the logic?

 

[Tullamore]

50 mpg is nothing, in Europe you can buy M versions of BMWs with diesel engines that get 40-60 mpg. A stripped down car with with a modern diesel would get 100 mpg.

For example you can get a 318d Sport that is rated at 60.1 mpg or a 535d M with 286 hp that gets 52.3 mpg.

 

[skywords]

50 mpg is nothing, in Europe you can buy M versions of BMWs with diesel engines that get 40-60 mpg. A stripped down car with with a modern diesel would get 100 mpg.

For example you can get a 318d Sport that is rated at 60.1 mpg or a 535d M with 286 hp that gets 52.3 mpg.

That great! but can I get one for $2500.00 or even $5000.00 or even $10,000.00 or even $15,000.00 or even $20,000.00 ?

 

[Tullamore]

No I totally agree, I just think hybrids are the wrong way to go, we should be developing diesel technologies first and in any case a diesel engine makes more sense to be paired to hybrid technologies anyways.

 

[skywords]

No I totally agree, I just think hybrids are the wrong way to go, we should be developing diesel technologies first and in any case a diesel engine makes more sense to be paired to hybrid technologies anyways.

I agree with the diesel being a viable answer. My school bus gets better mileage than some pick ups and I hauling 60 people or more. I think detroit has missed the boat.

 

[Series3Scott]

But as long as Americans keep buying big trucks and SUVs (the two best selling segments in the auto industry) the automakers will keep supplying them. Gas still isn't expensive enough for many Americans to consider downsizing.

The size of some of these SUVs is ridiculous!

 

[65beam]

diesel

we're dealing with a whole different world now when it comes to diesel. the current on road diesel is a very hard product to treat for winter use and also for water.the high and low sulpher of old were very tolerant of water compared to today's ultralow diesel.i deal with this problem every day and it's not easy. just keeping the lubricity up so the engine doesn't destroy itself is the biggest problem we encounter.and with the cost of parts for diesel ,that's a major problem. let's just stick with gasoline and i'll continue to drive my SUV. my 2008 GMC can't even be run on E85 and i'm glad of that due to how corrosive it is .biodiesel is another crazy world also. think about this; based on the rate of inflation ,gas is a bargain ! i get 20mpg on my big old american suv ,but it's really comfortable and tows a car trailer with no effort at all and i can carry lots of friends with me . my van is about the same on mileage and i know i can get bunches of people in it plus haul lots of sunbeam stuff .you have to give up something to get the mileage and comfort for old people like me is something i don't want to give up.

 

[skywords]

we're dealing with a whole different world now when it comes to diesel. the current on road diesel is a very hard product to treat for winter use and also for water.the high and low sulpher of old were very tolerant of water compared to today's ultralow diesel.i deal with this problem every day and it's not easy. just keeping the lubricity up so the engine doesn't destroy itself is the biggest problem we encounter.and with the cost of parts for diesel ,that's a major problem. let's just stick with gasoline and i'll continue to drive my SUV. my 2008 GMC can't even be run on E85 and i'm glad of that due to how corrosive it is .biodiesel is another crazy world also. think about this; based on the rate of inflation ,gas is a bargain ! i get 20mpg on my big old american suv ,but it's really comfortable and tows a car trailer with no effort at all and i can carry lots of friends with me . my van is about the same on mileage and i know i can get bunches of people in it plus haul lots of sunbeam stuff .you have to give up something to get the mileage and comfort for old people like me is something i don't want to give up.

We burn about sixty thousand dollars worth every month of low sulfur diesel with not a single problem with water or engine lubrication. Some of our buses are older units from the late eighties and they just keep going. Maybe we are just lucky at the bus yard. I do put a quart of tranny fluid in every fill up of my personal Greyhound bus. It has a Detroit 8V71 two stroke.

I would like to have a small auto like the Nano to commute with. Reliable new affordable transportation. I love driving my Alpine but a new car as a daily would be nice. Most Alpines sell for more on e-bay.

 

[Nickodell]

The biggest slip-up by Detroit is the lack of a plug-in hybrid! With the average trip being less than 20 miles, these could run 90% of the time on battery only.

Just think where we could have been today if Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford or Carter had announced an Apollo Project for wind, solar, geothermal, riverine, tidal and nuclear energy. We could be recharging our plug-in hybrids with 100% non-polluting fuel. Petroleum would be used only for heavy transportation and the occasional long car trip.

When I was in northern Manitoba in January 1976, each restaurant, movie house and hotel/motel had a "hitching post" in the parking lot. You had to plug your car into this, to operate the block and sump heaters, if you were stopping for more than 5 minutes, or you'd either freeze up or be unable to start. Think about what we could have now: Every motel, hotel, restaurant, movie house, shopping mall with a coin-operated, or free, power outlet to recharge your plug-in hybrid while you ate, shopped etc.

This country has produced more Nobel science laureates than all others combined, so why do we have to continually talk of what might have been? A philosopher once said: "The saddest words in the English language are 'If Only.'"

 

[alpine_64]

The new Tata is a 650cc +/- motor, so essentially a 4 wheel/seat motorbike. Its copping flack from locals over there as they were hoping for a car that would not add to polution which is already a severe issue there... then there is the traffic.. its jammed now, imagie what more cars would make it like! In many ways they would be better off investing heavily in good public transport (and other infrastructure like closed sewage systems)

As a side note rick.. not having a dig at you, just pointing out that you have been very vocal about supporting USA jobs and manufacture (and im glad you are prepared to support your own countries industry.. we have the same issues here in AU) but the reason the peoples car is so cheap in India is the working/living conditions. The wages that make it possible for the car to be so cheap would have you living below the poverty line.. the USA could probably build a similar car.. but the labour would be illegal from accross the border.. It would be better for people in the USA to change their attitudes towards quality and price.. make them see the value in spending a few more $ to keep jobs in the country and get them to demand something that is fuel efficent and well made.. not something they will trade in after 2 years as its falling to bits.

Also given Tata bought Jag.. wonder if they will do an upmarket model, maybe 1 litre with leather.. and put the leaping cat badge on it!

 

[Bill Blue]

Rick, when you speak of water in fuel, you gotta remember where you are living. Here in the glorious midwest, we get a lot of moderate winter weather. Temperatures in the mid thirties to low fifties, humidity can be very high, with rainy spells lasting close to a week. The result is fuel gets contaminated with water from the atmosphere. Sometimes it gets so bad cars will stall and drivers accuse stations of adding water to the gasoline.

As to hybrids, I do think they have their place. One of my sons had a Honda Civic Hybrid. When he did most of his driving around Indy, he could average 54-55 mpg. Open road cruising at 65 would drop that to low 40's. For comparison, he currently has an Escort ZX2 (a pocket rocket) that gets low to mid 30's, seemingly regardless of where he drives. I do believe he has a heavier foot with the Ford, though. He always tried to maximize mileage with the Honda, not so this car. So for someone who spends most of their miles navigating heavy city traffic, they do make sense.

Bill

 

[mikephillips]

And no matter the cost or mileage of a car like this it would never pass the crash tests we in the western world demand. To do that would push it far beyond the reach of it's target group.

 

[Eleven]

Everything that is old is new again

This is just post war Europe in India. Fiat 500, Morris Minor, Topolino, Renault, VW, Crosley, 2CV. Low CC, high mileage death traps. (Total hoot to drive though.) BTW, I am moving to Australia, the V8 racing series is on Speed Channel, insane!! Better than the DTM (I know, off topic).

 

[skywords]

And no matter the cost or mileage of a car like this it would never pass the crash tests we in the western world demand. To do that would push it far beyond the reach of it's target group.

Mike you are correct I am sure. Though who knows the smart car did well. I really don't care if it would pass, it beats riding a motorcycle in the cold and we know how well they do in a crash. I just think we should have the choice of what kind of car we can drive. If these kinds of cars can be produced here and the crash tests show they are fragile then sign me up for one because that means good mileage and I am not going to put my family in it anyway. My commute I have no stop lights and I see maybe two cars on the road that time of day.

Hey modified guys how about a hybrid Alpine?

 

[mikephillips]

I agree you should have a choice. It's just an observation on the regulatory environment that the western world has build, for good or for bad. Governments job isn't to force any of us to make safe decision, be it a car, smoking, high fats, etc. They're there to ensure your choices don't deliberately harm me and vis versa. Perhaps they should market in the developed world a kit version which might get around some of the regulations.

 

[Bill Blue]

Just curious, does a car have to pass the safety tests? I know that if it does poorly, it gets black-jacked by the press and will have a tough time selling. But I think there is a market for a rawhide tough little car that gets great gas mileage.

If it proves to be another Fiat, don't bother.

Bill

 

[alpine_64]

Does anyone have the link to that blue SI/II alpine that was being converted? Been a while since i saw progress on that, though general wisdom pointed to it being much heavier and underpowered vs a stock alpine

 

[skywords]

The new Tata is a 650cc +/- motor, so essentially a 4 wheel/seat motorbike. Its copping flack from locals over there as they were hoping for a car that would not add to polution which is already a severe issue there... then there is the traffic.. its jammed now, imagie what more cars would make it like! In many ways they would be better off investing heavily in good public transport (and other infrastructure like closed sewage systems)

As a side note rick.. not having a dig at you, just pointing out that you have been very vocal about supporting USA jobs and manufacture (and im glad you are prepared to support your own countries industry.. we have the same issues here in AU) but the reason the peoples car is so cheap in India is the working/living conditions. The wages that make it possible for the car to be so cheap would have you living below the poverty line.. the USA could probably build a similar car.. but the labour would be illegal from accross the border.. It would be better for people in the USA to change their attitudes towards quality and price.. make them see the value in spending a few more $ to keep jobs in the country and get them to demand something that is fuel efficent and well made.. not something they will trade in after 2 years as its falling to bits.

Also given Tata bought Jag.. wonder if they will do an upmarket model, maybe 1 litre with leather.. and put the leaping cat badge on it!

I think we could build something that is pretty good for about twice the price if we used the same tooling every year. In lies the problem Joe six pack doesn't want the same car every year, he wants fancy chrome with lots of whistles and bells and a different look every year for the look at me factor.

As a friend of mine that made many millions in manufacturing said as the key to his success "Give them what they want not what they need, we know what they need, it's not what they want"

Maybe the hood ornament on the new Jag will be a cow?

 

[Tullamore]

Does anyone have the link to that blue SI/II alpine that was being converted? Been a while since i saw progress on that, though general wisdom pointed to it being much heavier and underpowered vs a stock alpine

I think you talking about the guy at Left Coast Electric : http://leftcoastelectric.com/content/view/12/26/

 

[Bill Blue]

I think we could build something that is pretty good for about twice the price if we used the same tooling every year. In lies the problem Joe six pack doesn't want the same car every year, he wants fancy chrome with lots of whistles and bells and a different look every year for the look at me factor.

As a friend of mine that made many millions in manufacturing said as the key to his success "Give them what they want not what they need, we know what they need, it's not what they want"

Maybe the hood ornament on the new Jag will be a cow?

Rick, a case in point about everything has to be "new, bigger and better". The Ford Ranger is a design that has been around for eons. Still is a serviceable, tough little truck. But they are not selling because they are now smaller than the competition and need a face lift.

"We have met the enemy and he is us" Pogo.

Bill