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Miata Engine and tranny swap

serIIalpine

serIIalpine

Donation Time
Has anyone tried/heard of or thought about putting a 1/6 or 1.8l Miata engine and tranny in an alpine?

I know you can buy a whole engine, tranny and ECM etc for about $1500 on a pallet. Sometimes with a warrantee.

It's a pretty nice little engine for which there are lots of easily obtainable mods.

Thoughts???

Eric

'62 SerII
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
serIIalpine said:
Has anyone tried/heard of or thought about putting a 1/6 or 1.8l Miata engine and tranny in an alpine?

I know you can buy a whole engine, tranny and ECM etc for about $1500 on a pallet. Sometimes with a warrantee.

It's a pretty nice little engine for which there are lots of easily obtainable mods.

Thoughts???

Eric

'62 SerII
Click to expand...

Go for it!

Bill
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Eric, the Alpine engine bay is so cramped and convoluted, I don't think it is possible to "think out" a swap. If you have a chance, measure the width of the Miata engine and study the motor mounts and starter. If you determine the width is compatible with the Alpine engine bay width and the engine mounts and starter will not interfere with the steering, it is probably doable.

But prepare yourself for a lot surprises.

Bill
 
alpine_64

alpine_64

Donation Time
The problem for an alpine swap will be the height of another motor, the alpines low profile at the front and the curve would mean that a twin cams motor might hit the bonet. You would need to mount it far enough back/low enough to solve this issue.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Bonnet clearance of the cam towers would be about my last concern. As near as I can tell, a Duratec will fit. The intake curving up over the towers (Ranger edition) is the only height problem and Jan says the Quad Four is not too tall. The hood bulge is deceptively large and a modest scoop or bubble would solve most any cam tower interference.

Bill
 
64beam

64beam

Donation Time
Hi Eric,

As Bill pointed out the swap could definately be done, but not without a certain amount of cursing and plenty of time and money. If people can shoe-horn a V8, etc into the Alpine chassis surely a four pot miata engine will also squeeze in.

Regards, Robin.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
With enough time, money and sweat, anything can be put into an Alpine, but there comes a point where the returns aren't worth the effort. I don't know how hard it would be to install a Miata engine into the Alpine, because I haven't attempted it, but i think it would take some money to make a custom intake manifold and header to be able to put the engine where it needs to be for best balance.

The Miata engine would be good for reliability and driveability. It would also give more performance, but would it be enough to make the expense in time, money and effort worth it? I don't know, but if someone wants to do this swap, it would be a good idea to think about the plusses and minuses alot before jumping in.

As Bill has stated, there are a lot of surprises, when doing a conversion, that can bite you, so do a lot of measuring, then measure again, before making a decision.

Jose :)
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
This Toyota is installed in a Morris Minor, which has a lot bigger engine compartment, and the hood doesn't slope down as drastically as the Alpine's does. I don't know if the front of the cam covers will clear the sloping hood line of an Alpine. What I can say, after looking at it closely, is that the intake manifold will not fit the tight confines of the Alpine engine bay. To fit this engine into an Alpine, you would need to fabricate a custom intake system to clear the inner fender well. I can't see if the starter location will interfere with the steering arms either. Rarely, is a conversion as straight forward as it might seen.

Jose :)
 
fj55mike

fj55mike

Donation Time
4age

Well, I should have my 4AGE delivered on Friday afternoon, so I'll be trying to shoehorn it in sometime in the next few weeks. I have measured an Elan twin cam motor, which is about the same size or a little bigger than a 4AGE, and I think that it should fit pretty well, intake manifold and all. The only problem will be the fender to firewall reinforcement bar, but I think with a little tweaking everything should go perfectly.
 
M

miket

Donation Time
Which bell housing and tranny will you be using?

From what I've read you can easly (relatively) but side draft carbs on that engine.

I think that width wise it will be an easier fit than the V6. Although the Alpine hood sloops down, if you were to measure a few inches behind the rad, it isn't so bad. My guess is that it will be an easy fit. Make a cardboard box the size of the engine and you can easily test your theory.

These engines are used a lot on the LoCost/Caterham/Lotus 7 clones. Look around those sites and you'll see some examples of how they mount the engines.

Good luck Mike. let us know how it goes.
 
fj55mike

fj55mike

Donation Time
I am going to use a bellhousing and rwd T50 5-spd tranny out of a Corolla GTS that I got for $150 on evil-bay. Any rwd T series transmission will bolt directly up to any A or T series engine, flywheel, and bellhousing, so that's handy.

I recieved the engine, and I've decided that it would definitely be easier to go with a 16 valve 4age rather than the 20 valve. The nice thing about the 20V is that the throttle bodies are aimed up just a touch, and the sump is designed to have the intake side tilted up about 5 degrees as well, so I think that I will be able to clear the fender to firewall braces with little difficulty. The hardest part will be clearance around the distributor which is on the rear of the exhaust cam.

--Mike
 
Andrew

Andrew

SAOCA Web/Graphics Service
Donation Time
No longer an Alpine

Not too hard to make an elephant fit when you remove the entire firewall and original engine bay. This is a very sad state of affair.:D This is just my opinion but then that is the only one I have.:) I would hate to think what that little tube frame would do.:eek:
 
C

Chuck Ingram

Donation Time
Andrew said:
Not too hard to make an elephant fit when you remove the entire firewall and original engine bay. This is a very sad state of affair.:D This is just my opinion but then that is the only one I have.:) I would hate to think what that little tube frame would do.:eek:
Click to expand...

Maybe he has better size tubing for the frame members.1 inc h tubing would be prone to bending but to hold the fenders together would be fine.It does look well done.I don't think he has to worry about cooling with all that open space around the wheels.I do like the look of his gas pedal.
 
Jim E

Jim E

Donation Time
Wow! I like it, wish the guy would have come to the Invasion so I could look the beast over. Not wild about the fender flares but 410 C.I. and a four speed sounds just about right, well maybe a 460 would be better.. man I bet that thing will get out of shape at the drop of a hat.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Really can't figure out cars such as this, unless it is for show only. High quality finish, much higher than you'd expect to see in a drag car. An accelerator pedal location that would give you a leg cramp in about five minutes, so it can't be a road car. But an oversize gas tank. Maybe he has someone riding in the rear seat to operate the gas pedal.

Bill
 
mike_also

mike_also

Diamond Level Sponsor
It's all a matter of degree I suppose. Philosophically, all that separates us darksiders and this example is, well, nothing! Mr. Park goes where no one has gone, so on and so forth. I like it except for the accelerator pedal, oversize rear end, overlarge wheels and tires....
 
serIIalpine

serIIalpine

Donation Time
Me. I like to drive my car for more than 10 seconds at a stretch.
While I really don't mind people hijacking a post I think we've lost the spirit.

Cars like the one in question belong in the "silly/pointless and I have too much money and a really short attention span" catagory.

What I was hoping to start with this thread was an engine mod that keeps the original character and handling of my alpine which is an excellent handling car that gets looks everywhere it goes and can supply me with hour after hour of sheer driving enjoyment both reliably and economically.

The idea that engines, transmissions and ecu's come delivered to your door for well under $2000 that put out as much as 200 hp and will actually fit shows some real possibility of making my car a bit quicker, much more reliable, easier to get parts for and still let it handle like it does now (better than every tiger I've come upon) is all I was trying to get at.

No to be a jerk but let's keep this thread limited to 4 cylinders or 2 rotors please.

Thanks

Eric

'62 SerII
 
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