• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

Metric or SAE bolts

P

pcmenten

Donation Time
My Sunbeam was a literal basket case. I really did get the car with baskets of parts.

I am trying to fit the radiator to the support and I don't want to jam a SAE bolt into metric threads if I can avoid it (or visa versa). What bolt is used to mount the radiator to the support?

I had asked a similar question previously and was told that most body bolts are SAE fine thread, so I'm going to start from that assumption.

I have a tap-and-die set so I'm going to test some taps to see if I can find a good fit.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Paul,

All the bolts on your Alpine are SAE fine, as someone already said. All the bolts on the engine are metric, because they were made in Germany.

Jose

p.s. I wouldn´t start using a tap on your Alpine. for fear of messing them up, which would cause a real problem.
 
65beam

65beam

Donation Time
bolts

all bolts used were SAE with the exception of one bolt used on the seat. you'll find lots of 1/4 and 5/16 fine thread. no metric!
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
I'm going with 5/16 fine for the radiator support. I can get some flanged bolts at Ace.

Thanks guys.

P.S. - Jose, I started chasing threads on my cylinder heads and I think I've found that the exhaust threads were deliberately deformed, probably to prevent the bolts from backing themselves out.

Fouled threads will cause the machine screws to get mis-torqued while using a torque wrench. If the threads are fouled, the screw won't be stretched like it needs to be.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Paul,

I thought you were going to use your taps on the body threaded holes. Chasing the threads on the engine is a good thing that should do anytime we rebuild an engine, for the reason you stated. All engine bolts have a torque requirement for them, and as you stated, it´s impossible to get the correct torque if there is junk in the threads.

Body bolts usually don´t have a torque requirement, so chasing the threads isn´t necessary.

Jose


pcmenten said:
I'm going with 5/16 fine for the radiator support. I can get some flanged bolts at Ace.

Thanks guys.

P.S. - Jose, I started chasing threads on my cylinder heads and I think I've found that the exhaust threads were deliberately deformed, probably to prevent the bolts from backing themselves out.

Fouled threads will cause the machine screws to get mis-torqued while using a torque wrench. If the threads are fouled, the screw won't be stretched like it needs to be.
Click to expand...
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
The bolts for the oil pump on my V6 are MIA. Can anybody do a quick check to see what size bolt that is? Both thread diameter and pitch, as well as length.

Thanks in advance.

Once I have the oil pan cinched up, next up for me is the clutch slave cylinder. I got the Wilwood part and I'm using the bracket from Jose's kit. One of you guys (Mike F.?) had posted a picture of how you had mounted yours and I'll be using that as my guide.

Then I think the next step is attaching the flywheel and clutch pack and possibly installing the engine/transmission into the engine bay for the last time.

I might have a problem with my passenger-side header being close to, and pointing right at, a frame member.

Paul
 
Nickodell

Nickodell

Donation Time
The first time I did a tappet clearance (rocker to Yanks) check on my 1952 MG TD, after I'd had the head skimmed to raise the C.R., all the head/block bolts/studs/screws/nuts were Imperial (Whitworth or BS Fine.) But I found that none of my spanners (wrenches) fit the tappet screws and nuts. It turned out that they were metric. I'm pretty sure the engines were made right there, in England, so the mystery continues.
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
The engine was made in Germany, so all the bolts are metric. I can´t tell you what size bolts are for each application, but you don´t need to worry about if they are metric or not.

Jose
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
I apparently need a special main cap bolt to mount the oil pump pickup to. Does anybody have one to sell?
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
No luck so far. If I could figure out what the part number is I might be able to find a supplier. Anybody have any ideas how to look up that part number?

I've been searching the web but nothing yet.

Never mind! Found it. TZ-6345-C

Paul
 
Last edited:
G

Gitnrusty

Donation Time
Paul. Your part number is missing two prefix letters.
Should have XX TZ-XXXX-C assuming the " base number" (XXXX) is correct.
Im guessing the missing numbers should be "F4",
The "F" indicates FORD and the "4" indicates first year of production, 1974 is my guess.
If that identical part was used on the preceding V4 engine the "4" might be a lower number!
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
Hey Chuck! Good info. This is the oil pump pickup mounting stud for 84-88 Bronco II/Ranger, but I think I found the part as D9HZ-6345-A.

I ordered it from fordpartsgiant.com.

Paul
 
S

SumBeans

Donation Time
Off Topic

Several years ago I had a Pontiac Tech 4 engine with a head job to do for a friend.
To remove the 4 cyl head I was shocked that they had 4 different bolts holding it to the block.
There were two different SAE and two different Metric bolts holding down ONE head.:mad:
Gee that was frustrating heading to the hardware store for odd ball sockets.
Looking back on it now, I believe if GM required the Engineers at Pontiac to under go Drug/Piss tests, maybe they would still be in business.:p
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
Ford is much worse than GM. The main cap bolts on 1956 Ford 312 Y-Blocks are slightly shorter on the rear main cap. If you put one of the longer bolts from the front main caps into the rear main cap, you will likely bottom out the bolt and split the block.

GM usually made a practice of making bolts used for a application, such as holding on the timing cover, the same length. Ford has no problem with making them different lengths and it's up to us to make sure the right bolt goes into the right hole and does not do something like pass through and press against the cylinder wall, distorting the cylinder.

Ford also uses some oddball bolt types. On a 1954 223 6 cylinder, the head bolts are grade 4. Not grade 5, grade 4. Never saw that before. I try be be real careful with Ford bolts.
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
Update - bolt (stud) size

The part I ordered is not the right part. What I need is a M12 1.75 that is 3.25" long. Back to searching. Looks like the part number should be TZ-6345-G
 
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
Update on the main cap bolt/stud for the oil pump. I got a chance to strip a 4.0 engine of its crankshaft and main cap bolts. The bolts are too long but cutting off about 3/8" got it to fit, so I now have a bolt/stud to use to hold the strut from the oil pump pickup.

But there's more; the oil pump from the 4.0 might fit and it does not use a strut to stiffen the oil pump pickup. The pump and pickup itself looks pretty stout, and it obviously clears the 4.0 crankshaft. Also, the 4.0 has a windage tray. That's why it has bolt/studs - they are used to hold the windage tray.

So, if/when you stroke the 2.8 to 4.0, you might do well to buy a core 4.0 short block and strip the crank, oil pump and pickup, main cap bolt/studs, and windage tray. I'm not sure why the 4.0 bolts are longer, don't know if the main caps are taller or what. The threaded portion of the bolt is the same length as the 2.8 bolt, so that's not why.

Kelly, I notice that you had clamped the oil pump pickup strut under the main cap bolt. That might not be ideal. If you'd like one of my bolt/studs to remount the oil pump pickup, send me a PM with your address and I'll send one of the spare bolts your way.

Paul
 
Last edited:
P

pcmenten

Donation Time
I realized that I had a typo in the above post - if you want to stroke a 2.8 with a 4.0 crank, you'll get a 3.5. Just wanting to be clear about that.
 
G

Gitnrusty

Donation Time
Main cap bolt

Paul...Glad to see that you have solved the missing bolt problem.
I had intended to look up the correct part number when I went in to Ford but with my forgetfulness........ I forgot!!! Sorry.:eek:
It is quite likely that it has been discontinued by Ford given the age.
Anyway, Moot point. You're making progress!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top