metal dust and glitter in oil during breakin

[mightyohm]

How normal is it to have fine metal dust and some small shavings or glitter in the oil during break-in of a rebuilt motor?

I changed the oil after the 20 minute cam breakin, and a trip around the block, and noticed a few fine shavings in the oil. Then I opened up the oil filter with a filter cutter to look inside.. The oil inside the filter had a surprising amount of fine metal dust and very small shavings inside, and there was some fine glitter on the paper element. No big piles or big chunks, mind you, but far more than the "zero metal" I was hoping to see!

The "dust" is definitely magnetic, while most of the silver colored glitter is non magnetic.

I changed the oil again after 100 miles, and still had some "glitter" but seemed better.

I'm using Brad Penn 30W breakin oil, which is supposedly made for breaking in flat tappet engines.

Concerned that the cam might not have broken in correctly, I pulled out the tappets and didn't see any major issues with the lifters or the cam lobes. There are some minor swirl marks on the lifter faces, but this is very similar to what I've seen previously. No obvious issues with the cam.

I've done some research online, and folks seem to be split between "some dust and fine shavings are normal" and "no metal at all is normal".

How normal is this?

 

[Ratical]

I've never built a Sunbeam. But I have seen the glitter and debri you speak of in other builds. As far as the amount, it's hard to measure. I believe it will clear up as your break in wears in.

 

[mightyohm]

Here's a sample of the metal dust + glitter in the filter. I strained the rest of the oil that was remaining in the filter through a coffee filter and found more debris very similar to this, but I don't have a good photo.

 

[chazza]

It may not be a big-deal.

I once had a newish car; when I changed the oil in the diff and gearbox, both magnets had pyramids of metal on them like your photo. At the next service there was hardly any debris at all and it gradually reduced to nil over the next 40 000km.

I suspect the metal on your magnet is from the bores and rings,

Cheers Charlie

 

[alpine_64]

Did you rebore the block? Do you have an oil cooler? If things were not fully cleaned and flushed before assembly there might be some metal dust left in there. As for the chances of it being a failure during break in , not sure keep a very close eye on it maybe do another quick oil change and examination, see if it's reducing... Put a nice big magnet on the sump plug and on the oilf filter try and prevent what there is circulating.

 

[Tom H]

Jeff,

I guess a key question is whether the flakes and dust you are seeing is the result of the cutting and grinding during the rebuild or if they are the result of wear occurring since the rebuild. I did not observe that much debris in my engine after rebuild, but also I did not look that closely.

A key question : How thoroughly did you wash the engine block after the machining? Did you use soap and water as was recommended to me.

If not it seems likely that you are seeing the results of the machining and grinding.

Tom

 

[sd_pace]

look at the fuel pump arm and cam lobe for a wear mark

 

[P. Scofield]

That's not good.....that's not good at all!
I would pull your pan right away and see if the thrust washers fell out. This metal may be coming from the block journal surface. The other way you might be able to tell without pulling the pan is if there is any end play on the crank. If you can move it back or forward at all that you can visually see, thrust washer may be the culprit.

Good luck.

 

[DanR]

I've seen it in several engines where the cam lobes grind down rapidly.

Check a few of the lifters for abnormal wear...

DanR

 

[sd_pace]

if the cams end play is to big it is a problem like this

 

[mightyohm]

if the cams end play is to big it is a problem like this

I checked end play on install, and it was in spec. Where does the cam wear if end play is out of spec?

 

[mightyohm]

I've seen it in several engines where the cam lobes grind down rapidly.

Check a few of the lifters for abnormal wear...

DanR

Photos of the lifters are attached. There are some light score marks in a swirl pattern on several of the lifters, but otherwise I'd say they look fine. The cam lobes also looked fine from what I could see. No unusual wear or flat lobes, at least. I believe the score marks were caused by the contamination in the oil, Elgin agrees with this.

 

[mightyohm]

Really thoroughly, with soap and water. I thought I got all traces of dirt and grit out, but I could have missed some... I talked to a local shop, who advised me to run another hundred miles and see if the condition is trending better or worse. I'm considering taking that approach after doing a few more checks and possibly dropping the oil pan to take a look inside.

Jeff,

I guess a key question is whether the flakes and dust you are seeing is the result of the cutting and grinding during the rebuild or if they are the result of wear occurring since the rebuild. I did not observe that much debris in my engine after rebuild, but also I did not look that closely.

A key question : How thoroughly did you wash the engine block after the machining? Did you use soap and water as was recommended to me.

If not it seems likely that you are seeing the results of the machining and grinding.

Tom

 

[DanR]

Just make sure the bottoms of the lifters are flat and not concave.

DanR

 

[mightyohm]

Update. It has been a few months since I last worked on the car, but I pulled the engine earlier in the summer and tore everything down, looking for the source of the tiny fragments in the oil.

I was hoping to find a smoking gun inside the motor, but so far I haven't found any big issues.

The only wear I can see is:

1. The faces of the lifters have some minor swirl marks but look otherwise fine. The sides of the lifters are scuffed, as shown in the attached photo. There is also some minor wear to the lifter bores (shiny spots near the top and bottom of travel). I had lightly honed the lifter bores with a hand drill and a ball hone prior to assembling the motor. See the attached photo.

2. The cam gear and crank gear both show wear in the space between the teeth. I never noticed this before but it may have always been there. I'm going to order a new timing set to compare as I don't have a good reference.

3. There is some minor scuffing/ scoring of the cylinder walls. Nothing out of line with what I've seen before, but a bit disappointing given the low mileage since the last time I had the bores honed. Given the large surface area that the rings travel over, I could see a small amount of wear generating a fair amount of metal filings.

4. There is some minor wear to both the oil pump gear and the camshaft gear. (photo of the cam attached)

5. The oil pump drive has a shiny spot. The cam looks fine.

Does any of this wear look unusual enough to be cause for concern? And does any of it look like something that could lead to lots of tiny metal flecks in the oil? I was expecting to find something more obvious.

 

[RootesRacer]

Probably the rings breaking into the crosshatch on the bores which could be expected. Was/is the crosshatch kind of coarse?

How was oil consumption during breakin?

 

[DanR]

I would like to see a better PIC of the bottom of the lifter where the most pressure is usually applied during run.

The cam lobes are of my interest also (PICs')?

For the whole system, at least to what I am seeing is failure for good lubrication...

Even the foot of the fuel pump seems to have a bit of excessive wear.

 

[mightyohm]

Probably the rings breaking into the crosshatch on the bores which could be expected. Was/is the crosshatch kind of coarse?

How was oil consumption during breakin?

No significant oil consumption. It was not noticeably burning oil either. And it ran fine, too. There was a rattle around 2000 rpm under moderate to heavy throttle and for a while I was convinced it was a broken ring, but when I pulled the pistons from the bores everything looked fine.

 

[mightyohm]

I would like to see a better PIC of the bottom of the lifter where the most pressure is usually applied during run.

The cam lobes are of my interest also (PICs')?

For the whole system, at least to what I am seeing is failure for good lubrication...

Even the foot of the fuel pump seems to have a bit of excessive wear.

I'll take some more photos. There's some light scoring of the lifter surface, presumably due to the metal contamination in the oil.

The valvetrain on this motor had some galling on the rocker shafts as well, which to me also suggests insufficient lubrication of the top end. However the oil pump seems fine and I've always had good oil pressure. I also was getting what seemed like good oil flow to the rockers - enough to make a big mess when the engine was running with the valve cover off.

I suspect the wear pattern on the lifter is due to the lifter cocking slightly in the lifter bore. I measured the lifter to bore clearance on one lifter last night and it was about 0.005". This is higher than what the Chevy guys online recommend. Does anyone know that the lifter to bore side clearance on the Sunbeam should be? I'm a little worried that when I honed the bores I took too much material off, although I'm told that a ball hone shouldn't be capable of removing much material. I should have measured clearance before I started, but that's 20-20 hindsight.

One thing I did notice this weekend is that the little spring + ball valve on the front of the motor (the oil sprayer for the timing cover) wasn't assembled correctly. The ball had slipped inside the spring, and as a result it could not have shut off oil flow to the sprayer. I'm not sure how significant this is or how much it would rob the top end of oil.

 

[RootesRooter]

Lifter bores are very smooth to start with. I sorta wonder if it was a good idea to hone them. I could see a lot of heat developing if the bores ended up rougher. Any good mechanical minds out there want to pipe in?

I vaguely recall that .005-over lifters used to be available but I haven't tried to look them up in years.