Lowering a S-V

[WaltSV]

I've read past threads recommending S-III front springs, cutting coils (1.5 seems popular) and removing rubber spacers. All these address the nose exclusively.

Doesn't some rear leaf modification have to be done to evenly lower the car and achieve an acceptable rake? From another expert source, it's been recommended to mark the current arch on the garage floor with chalk as a reference and bend the leafs to suit. Also an added leaf was suggested to balance stiffness if coils were trimmed.

Do any springs (front or rear) from other models / marques or the aftermarket fit and lower? Are custom springs out of the question, or unreasonably costly? Does anyone know original spring rates?


Regards and thanks,
Walt

 

[Ken Ellis]

Walt,
Some other methods might be:
See if your car sits level, side-to-side. Many LHD have a pronounced left-tilt to them, due to solo driving. If yours does, you might be able to switch their left spring for your right spring. Theirs is even, yours is even and lower.
(I've also heard of curing the tilt by inverting one interior leaf on the low side, then reassembling...)

Perhaps removing one leaf each side might get it lower. Be advised, though, that this will likely change many aspects of the suspension -- and therefore is information, not advice. I would consider this a reasonable experiment, though, since it's easily reversible. De-arching springs would require another trip to the spring shop if it didn't work out.

(Notice I didn't actually answer any of your questions? Typical...)

Ken

 

[Rodewaryer]

I'll start by just saying I don't have an answer either but am interested in one. I've always wanted the car around an inch or so lower but have really become tired of the front arch 'gap' so I see why some do the front first. Someone out there that races them knows more about how to get them down a bit.....might have to look on that forum.....

 

[sunbby]

I haven't done it, but a simple way to lower a leaf spring/live axle is with lowering blocks, which may require slightly longer u-bolts. Basically you add a 1" (or whatever you desire) block between the axle and the spring. Usually the blocks have locating holes. Also I think some applications use wedges to adjust drive shaft angles. I'm positive I remember somebody on the forum saying they used lowering blocks, but I can't find it anymore.

Here's an example I found (note I have no idea if these will work on an Alpine they are just examples): http://www.streetbeatcustoms.com/su...sion-kits-and-components-lowering-blocks.html

 

[Rodewaryer]

Now there ya go! Good suggestion, now we're making progress. I'd do that. Problem is, I won't cut my front coils, well, not until ALL options are exhausted. I would have thought there were other springs out there that are interchangable. I recall something (this is an unverified guess) about Tiger springs will lower the front? Or with the weight difference are there issues with trying that?

 

[Bill Blue]

Series 3 springs are the shortest and will make a visible difference when compared to the Series V springs. VB usually has them. If they are too tall, you are left with modifying springs. I've read the Tiger springs do not work well on the lighter Alpine.

Bill

 

[SDuncan]

I used lowering blocks to lower the back of my Alpine. The blocks went between the springs and the axle. Like mentioned before, you need a bit longer u-bolts. The good thing about doing it this way, is it is easily reversible.

 

[cdk84]

Lowering an Alpine

Lowering techniques for an Alpine apply equally to all the Series cars, and they've already been touched on here. Front: secure Series III coil springs, used or from Victoria British; Rear: use a lowering block, available in a variety of thicknesses from most parts suppliers, by order if not in stock.

A couple of thoughts.

First, as one might want to do on this site (and perhaps others): IN YOUR FIRST INQUIRY STATE YOUR PERFORMANCE GOAL OR THE REASON YOU WANT TO LOWER THE CAR, *AND* ITS PRESENT STATUS (stock, slightly modified engine but not suspension, tires and wheels (what diameter, aspect ratio, final drive ratio, etc). Is this modification for appearance/aesthetics only? handling? (if so, to what end? autocross? Solo I (time trials)? track days? racing? vintage racing? (if so, what venue?))

The more information you provide at the outset, the better responses you will receive, and the less of your own time you will potentially waste having to wait for the answer(s) you want.

Second, lowering with blocks is OK as a starting point, but if you have any intention of serious performance driving (see First, above --so we know where you're trying to get, but also where you're coming from) you may want to make a permanent adjustment once you've successfully used lowering blocks to determine your desired ride height and the resulting handling characteristics. Then it would be time to have your springs professionally de-arched, and there are still a few companies that do this properly. I DON'T KNOW ANYONE THAT RACES THEIR CAR WITH LOWERING BLOCKS, due to the stresses applied to the rear suspension. Losing a lowering block at speed could be anywhere from 'ruining your race weekend,' to much, much worse.

Hope this is of help.

FYI those who have 'gone before' know that the Alpine's handling, perhaps more than some other cars of its era, can be significantly improved by lowering the vehicle's stance.

Be aware that there may be further development necessary, in the form of suspension tuning, between a simple lowering of the Alpine and its best possible performance, which, when dialed in, can be quite spritely for a car of its era.

This issue becomes of even greater importance (and potential safety implications) for those of us driving a stock Alpine suspension to more-than-specified levels by installing a V6 driveline.

All the Best, Safely
David

 

[WaltSV]

Lowering techniques for an Alpine apply equally to all the Series cars, and they've already been touched on here. Front: secure Series III coil springs, used or from Victoria British; Rear: use a lowering block, available in a variety of thicknesses from most parts suppliers, by order if not in stock.

A couple of thoughts.

First, as one might want to do on this site (and perhaps others): IN YOUR FIRST INQUIRY STATE YOUR PERFORMANCE GOAL OR THE REASON YOU WANT TO LOWER THE CAR, *AND* ITS PRESENT STATUS (stock, slightly modified engine but not suspension, tires and wheels (what diameter, aspect ratio, final drive ratio, etc). Is this modification for appearance/aesthetics only? handling? (if so, to what end? autocross? Solo I (time trials)? track days? racing? vintage racing? (if so, what venue?))

My thanks to all replies and a question or two for David.

No one else has taken exception to my inquiry format yet you appear somewhat agitated and I wonder why. Or, have I mis-interpreted your elevated voice directive?

At the outset of my post I did cite my search efforts and the existance of coil spring data but the lack of information specific to leaf spring options.

I did not specify any current status as all is stock and I intentionally wanted to recieve unbiased responses. Although I could have specified intent to maintain as a road car with improved aesthetics and handling (as a function of the lower center of gravity) I had hoped to respondants would comment as to effects of change options, i.e. cut coils -> stiffer, S-III same rate as S-V?

Had my goals been significantly more focused, as in racing, autocross, or other competitive activity I certainally would have so noted and if my omission was a misdirection to anyone, I apologize. It doesn't appear that others took that tangent, however.

The more information you provide at the outset, the better responses you will receive, and the less of your own time you will potentially waste having to wait for the answer(s) you want.

Again, I am thankful for the numerous replies and their responsiveness. I also trust the initial posters who engaged in my inquiry and had similar interest are similarly satisfied. The result has been a topical conversation over the past 4 days.

Second, lowering with blocks is OK as a starting point, but if you have any intention of serious performance driving (see First, above --so we know where you're trying to get, but also where you're coming from) you may want to make a permanent adjustment once you've successfully used lowering blocks to determine your desired ride height and the resulting handling characteristics. Then it would be time to have your springs professionally de-arched, and there are still a few companies that do this properly. I DON'T KNOW ANYONE THAT RACES THEIR CAR WITH LOWERING BLOCKS, due to the stresses applied to the rear suspension. Losing a lowering block at speed could be anywhere from 'ruining your race weekend,' to much, much worse.

Curiously I've found this differs locally. I made some effort this weekend to canvass the paddock in our regional historic races and found the 2 S-Vs were running ~2" metal (Aluminum?) lowering blocks and have for years without incident. Not sure what the Imp or Tiger were running. What would be the risk here?

Hope this is of help.

FYI those who have 'gone before' know that the Alpine's handling, perhaps more than some other cars of its era, can be significantly improved by lowering the vehicle's stance.

Be aware that there may be further development necessary, in the form of suspension tuning, between a simple lowering of the Alpine and its best possible performance, which, when dialed in, can be quite spritely for a car of its era.

This issue becomes of even greater importance (and potential safety implications) for those of us driving a stock Alpine suspension to more-than-specified levels by installing a V6 driveline.

All the Best, Safely
David

Many thanks,
Walt
Stock S-V
13" wheels
OEM steel with 175 AO32-R, or
LAT copy with 195 Sumimoto

 

[Mike snyder]

So who sells lowering blocks for an alpine?
Mike Snyder

 

[Jim E]

How about flipping the second spring in the leaf pack, Ian did a few like that if I recall.

 

[Rodewaryer]

I want the car lowered for both appearance and handling improvements for fast road and if that isn't sufficient or gets any crticism, lets call it autocrossing.

So, VB sells SIII front coil springs, good deal, my next question is, who rearches leaf springs?

 

[Pembertoltd]

Raising a series 5

Since someone is talking about lowering a car I figured that I would ask about raising the car 1 inch. I have brand new Koni shocks and new springs on it. I have gone with the V6 and 14 inch tires rather than the 13s. I have one fingers distance between the tire and the wheel well and do a lot of rubbing, A friend suggested air shocks be installed to raise it just the little that is needed for clearance. Has anyone done this or any other ideas for raising it a little. My rear could also come up a tad since at times the drive line will hit the tunnel when going around a corner or something.

 

[puff4]

....my next question is, who rearches leaf springs?

Most good truck spring shops can do custom leaf springs for you.

I had to get a set of laminated torsion bars made up for my old Turner 950S and a local truck spring place did them up in a week (they are similar to leaf springs).

(Link to pic of my old Turner, now sadly trashed.)

 

[Mod_Squad!]

I lowered the rear of mine with aluminum spacers that were 2" thick and had a hole and locating pin on them. I sourced them from a guy in Canada that had been running them on his Tiger. I really liked the look. The ride was fine around town but when I got mine all put together I had less than 50 miles on her before I took her across country to one of the Invasions. I didn't know how lousy the freeways were on the way out there but I got quite a workout lifting my butt out of the seat every time I saw a dip in the road. I was getting a lot of tire rub. I eneded up pulling them on the last day of the Invasion before I drove home. I don't know where you are at in your project but if you haven't painted yet I'd recommend doing a bit of trimming / bending the lip on the inside of the wheel arch. Of course it might not matter if your wheels and tires will clear. I imagine that all that have gone to the 8" rear ends have them done to different lengths. Anyhoooo...I'm going to do a little clearancing on my wheel arches and put the spacers back in this winter. I've already cut a half inch off the spacers. I think it looks a lot better sitting with the tires filling up the wheel openings and the front maybe a half inch lower. I don't know where you can source spacers but the u-bolts should be available from a good spring shop. I imagine that they could also make up spacers also.
Have Fun!
Bryan

 

[puff4]

Bryan, if you were having to lift your bottom off the seat when you hit bumps, were the tires hitting the wheel wells and bottoming, or was it more likely that by lowering it you then began hitting the bump-stops on the axle instead? If it's the latter, then trimming wheel wells won't do you much good.

 

[Mod_Squad!]

Hi Kevin,
It was definitely rubbing the outside of the tire on the wheel well. The top outside edge of the tires ended up with their own special profile. Luckily it was nothing too drastic. I think if I do a little work under there it will be fine. If I were to do it over I'd address that issue before doing the body work and paint of course.
I just returned from a 1600 mile+ round trip through Glacier National Park and the Alpine did great. 80 mph on the straights lots of beautiful scenery and good corners. She even handled quite a few potholes that sprang up. The only problem was that upon my return I discovered that the lower starter bolt was no longer there. I suppose it was some of the bumpy roads that wiggled it loose.
Have fun,
Bryan

 

[Bill Blue]

Bryan, does this mean you have solved the distributor problem?

Bill

 

[Mod_Squad!]

Hi Bill. Nope, still have not got her dialed in as she should be. I'm looking for an original un-rebuilt distributor. I'm on my third distributor and third (and final) carb. I'm 99.9% positive that the distributor is over-advancing. If I feather into it it works fine. I love the car but it does have it's own little idiosyncracies like they all do. The most annoying one (to me, my passengers and anyone within earshot) is the screaming alternator belt at around 3800-4000ish rpm's. I discovered that my alt bracket had developed a crack so I took it off and had it rewelded as well as had a stiffening piece put in. It seems that the alternator wants to move out of it's fixed position when the revs get that high, thius causing the belt to ride on the pulley a little different. I think my next step is going to be to weld a stiffener to the back of the adjustable bracket on top. I've not heard of anyone else with this problem. When I decide to make a problem for myself, I take extra care to ensure that it is unique so that it's extra fun to solve .
Didn't mean to hijack here...
Have fun,
Bryan

 

[RootesRooter]

Any chance it's a worn or incorrect belt? I haven't heard of the alternator moving around before if the adjustment bracket is solid. Is it a stock pulley on the alternator? How tight are the bolts holding the main mounting bracket to the block? After I replaced my bracket to go to a Hitashi unit, both bolts twice started backing out on its first extended trip out of the garage to SUNI IV.

Hi Bill. Nope, still have not got her dialed in as she should be. I'm looking for an original un-rebuilt distributor. I'm on my third distributor and third (and final) carb. I'm 99.9% positive that the distributor is over-advancing. If I feather into it it works fine. I love the car but it does have it's own little idiosyncracies like they all do. The most annoying one (to me, my passengers and anyone within earshot) is the screaming alternator belt at around 3800-4000ish rpm's. I discovered that my alt bracket had developed a crack so I took it off and had it rewelded as well as had a stiffening piece put in. It seems that the alternator wants to move out of it's fixed position when the revs get that high, thius causing the belt to ride on the pulley a little different. I think my next step is going to be to weld a stiffener to the back of the adjustable bracket on top. I've not heard of anyone else with this problem. When I decide to make a problem for myself, I take extra care to ensure that it is unique so that it's extra fun to solve .
Didn't mean to hijack here...
Have fun,
Bryan