Lake house

[Jim E]

Some may recall I bought this dump a while back, it is a bit over 1000 sp ft on an acre wooded lot and is maybe 500 yards from Lake Marion. Nice area sort of a vaction/summer crowd running around on golf carts and everyone seems pretty laid back.

When I bought this one thought might get away with some plaster work and a paint out... but it was not to be. The drywall was to far gone, bathroom floor was rotted and the floor plan was pretty bad so the next thing I knew it was gutted. So far have installed new windows and pretty much fixed painted the outside. Figure to move to the inside here in a day or so and stud the new walls up wire it and stub the plumbing and start hanging drywall.

Still need to figure out what sort of HVAC to install and am thinking to go to one of those on demand water heaters since floor space is at a premium in this one.

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/573144275Dqsldk

http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/album/573210260EUagzN

 

[skywords]

A block structure is good one. Termites won't eat it. Where is this place?

 

[mikephillips]

Unless you plan on living there full time whatever you get I'd ask about it's ability to stand up to long periods of not being used as well. Don't want things you're repairing every year or two...

 

[Ken Ellis]

re: image 3176...
Do you cut photoshopped grass with the photoshop clipping tool?

Looks like it's coming along well. Here's a thread about various tankless water heaters:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?t=97183highlight=on-demand

I had a buddy who asked me to come over and check out his new tankless. Seems it wasn't performing up to par, in his opinion. It performed much better once we hooked it up to the required 220, instead of 110.

Is there any chance you could delay move-in until after the drywall? Life would be better...

Ken

 

[MikeH]

Are you going to put in bigger valves?

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Jim,

The on demand water heaters are great. I have lived here in Colombia for five years and every place I´ve lived in has had one. I suggest getting one that uses gas, rather than pure electric, because a gas water heater is a lot cheaper to operate. I do like the later ones that use an electronic igniter, because you don´t have a pilot that uses gas, even when you aren´t using it. A good electronic ignited heater is truely there on demand, without needing a pilot that can go out if it isn´t used for a long time, or needs to be re-ignited when you want to use it.

My suggestion is to get a good sized one, because the smaller ones can´t handle two showers to operate at the same time, or one shower and someone opening the hot water faucet in the kitchen. Not a good thing to be taking a nice warm shower and then all of a sudden get a cold one, because someone else has opened a hot water faucet.

Jose

 

[Jim E]

The house is in the Summerton SC actually it is just close to that town not in it. When I say move inside did not mean I was going to live there just start the inside work. Jose there is only electric at this one so I am pretty much stuck on the water heater unless I put in propane. Would be a tough place to live in being right now it has one electric outlet and a garden hose. Just was happy to start the inside work and get out of the sun, it has been hotter than the Goveners love life here.

This house is about an hour away from where I live and we have been driving back and forth most everyday. I can now do the drive in auto pilot...

Interesting thing about this house and it being block and all, old guy stopped by the other day and told me when the hurrican hit the area back in 89, think it was Hugo, this was one of the only houses that was left standing. Today there are few actual houses in the area mostly it is trailers of one sort or another and a few very nice big money stick built houses. It is also interesting to drive around the lake front area and price the houses that are for sale, well trailers and shacks mostly. There is a 500 sq ft place [sort of a cross between a shed and a shack] on a narrow lot with water that is $360k right behind it off the water is a double wide that is $160k then further back from the water are some single wides in the 90k range. Three places down from me is a double wide on around 3 acres that is for sale in the $180k range. Before I bought this one I looked at a small shack that was on a shallow water [which is very different than being on what they call deep water] it was $60k and on rented or fee simple land with 10 years left on the land lease. The buy out option on the land was $140k. The average selling price in the area is $240k or so of course that is driven by the huge prices of the places on the water but I got this one for $20k and figure to have $35-40k total in it when done including purchase price.

Anyway know this is not car related but thought folks might like to see and hear about the adventure...

 

[Alpine 1789]

Congratulations Jim! It's good to see that the deal finally went through. Now I know why you've been so quiet lately. The place looks like it is really coming along. I'll have to bring my golf clubs the next time I come for a visit.

 

[Jim E]

Jim I have been told there are a dozen or so courses with in a 20 mile radius! then I am not a golfer... worms fear me!

 

[Jim E]

Brother Ken thanks for the water heater link. Looks like I will be buying one off ebay.

 

[Nickodell]

Jim: This might be of interest. I fitted a Bosch tankless water heater eight years ago,and it's performed faultlessly ever since. I chose the propane model, as we don't have natural gas here (except after eating chili). Cost about $600, but I think they're closer to $700 now. I also chose the pilotless (piezo-electric) model, as pilot lights are as dumb as electric storage water heaters.

It supplies all the hot water needed for bathing, clothes washing etc. The main reasons for fitting this were 1) because the original electric storage heater was always running out if more than one person was taking a shower, or since my wife likes to take one for 20 minutes anyhow; 2) storing hot water is dumb and expensive.

I also fitted a tankless electric heater under the tub in my garage, as it is a far from the gas water heater as possible, being on the opposite side of the house. Originally the garage hot faucet used the same supply as the other faucets in the house, but probably 50% of the heat was lost in the 100' of pipe.

Although it only supplies one faucet, probably one third of what the propane heater can put out, the little heater uses 10 KW of power, or 40A at 240v, and required 8 awg wiring direct from the load center (breaker board). Luckily, the house supply is 400A.

 

[Jim E]

Thanks for the info Nick. I am a little surprised at how many folks are using these had no idea they were so popular. Also did not know about the whole temprature setting no hot/cold water mix out of the tap deal. That is until I read the link Ken posted which also pointed to the ebay as a place to get these well at least the price seems a good bit better than the local box store. Thinking to buy this one.
http://cgi.ebay.com/TITAN-TANKLESS-...66:2|39:1|72:1205|240:1309|301:1|293:1|294:50

These things require a lot of electric capacity think the above is two 50 amp circuits I was planning on installing a 200 amp service now am not sure it would be enough.

 

[Nickodell]

These things require a lot of electric capacity think the above is two 50 amp circuits I was planning on installing a 200 amp service now am not sure it would be enough.

The model you are interested in takes 100a, so a 200a service would only be enough if you don't have any other high-load items, such as a range, electric clothes dryer or A/Cs. If you just have lights, TV and similar low-current stuff, you'd be OK. You should do an energy audit and add up all the electrical devices in the house (except, you can just include half the lights), and if this comes to more than about 15kw (63A at 240V) you are getting close to the limit.

In some areas, local codes don't allow more than 75% total load on the utility service, which is one reason why I upped my service to 400A when I installed an electric central heating system last year (when heating oil topped $4 a gallon). Even then, the local electic company had to install a new transformer on the utility pole and heavier overhead cable.

 

[Bill Blue]

Nick, when you say 400 amp, that is 200 per side, which is pretty much standard around here. We call it 200 amp service.

Bill

 

[Nickodell]

Nick, when you say 400 amp, that is 200 per side, which is pretty much standard around here. We call it 200 amp service.

Bill

No, I mean 400A service. To be exact, I have two separate 200A service inputs. When I installed the electric heating system I had the electrician put a 200A disconnect box alongside the regular 200A breaker panel (load center) that served the heater only. When I did an energy audit with the panel alone, turning on range, clothes dryer, microwave, a 3KW kettle/jug, well pump plus an assortment of lights and TVs, it maxed out at 145A, so there was no way the new 138A heating system could be added to the panel.

It was all rather interesting from a technical point of view. The electrician worked in conjunction with the electric utility. The utility did the overhead stuff, then the electrician took the down feed into a dual meter box. This has one meter, but two separate service entrance outputs rated at 200A each. The meter is one of the new electronic ones, that puts out radio info. that the utility reads remotely - no meter reader any more.

Everything is 240V in the UK, as you know. My parents had an all-electric house built on my dad's retirement, as new nuke stations had been coming on line every year or two, while every gallon of petroleum was imported as it always had been. The story was familiar: "nuclear-powered electricity will be so cheap you'll just pay a license fee, while heating oil will continue to rise in price." The single-story house had underfloor storage heating, with a separate 440V supply.

Soon after they moved in, the UK had the first nuclear power station accident and stopped building any more. Then they struck oil in the North Sea. So electicity continued to go up in price, as before, while the UK became a net oil exporter and heating oil prices came down. As dad said, you just can't win.

 

[Bill Blue]

Then the water heater you quoted is 100 amp per side? That's a lot.

Bill

 

[Ken Ellis]

Jim,
I went to the link you posted -- that's quite the heater! Where are your other two bathrooms? That thing will deliver 5 gallons per minute, which is like a full-bore garden-hose stream of hot water at whatever temp you set the dial. That's why it uses so much juice! If you're concerned about occasional high usage, you might just energize the primary side of it, and leave the second power input manually switched. Then, when you need the capacity, go turn off the air conditioner, and turn on the extra heater elements. Are you doing in-floor radiant heat for the three days a year you'll need heat?

Some of the folks on the Practical Machinist board discussed using passive solar pre-heating of the water, piping that into a standard water heater tank, and then using the on-demand heater to bring it from, for example, 70 degrees to 110 degrees, instead of from in-ground 55 degrees to 110 degrees. But since space is an issue, that might not be practical... You could build a big enough passive solar water pre-heat grid (on the roof) that it would function as your tank, also... so just send the roof-top collector water right into your on-demand unit.

On the electric matters... when we re-did our electric to bury the feeder cables, we went to 225 Amp service, because the electrician said that was the largest residential style meter socket and switchgear you could get without jumping to "industrial" pricing. 400 amp was well more than double the cost, and a little overkill in my book. And we're looking at 2 conventional gas furnace/elec air conditioners, one 2 ton heat pump, normal kitchen and home entertainment loads, plus a 1000 sq. ft. third floor office with easily 8 computers, phones, laser printers, copier, fax, three racks full of video equipment, (on about 9000 watts of UPS). Not to mention the shop with horizontal and vertical mill, lathe, shaper, welder, rotary phase converter, plus the full complement of PM66 table saw, planer, shaper, jointer, numerous bandsaws, etc. I still haven't run outta juice... (Of course, the office and the shop aren't working at full capacity at the same time.)

The nice thing is, most electronics are getting more efficient all the time (with the notable exception of early plasma TVs.) So, if you insulate well, and use foilage as shade where needed, and capitalize on solar gain when you want it, you can come out pretty efficient.

Ken

 

[Bill Blue]

Ken, your supposed to CNC the shop, set up a run, then go make money on the third floor. Bingo! You will then NEED the 400 amp service and the Alpine World will have a source of OD transmission output shafts..

Bill

 

[Ken Ellis]

Ha! If I were going to spend that amount of time, I'd make a "Gear Vendors"-type external OD that would mate with an unmodified SV trans. Or even better, a "two-speed" rear end pumpkin for Alpines, that incorporated direct and overdrive, integrated with LSD. Yeah, that's the ticket...

I did run across a guy (with apparently appropriate credentials) that looks like he could do CNC Vizard mods. Obviously, you'd still have to measure and tweak when finished, but I'm guessing you could get pretty darn close after you trash a few heads dialing it in! Rainy day project...

Ken

 

[mikephillips]

A use for those overmilled and otherwise trashed heads, dial in the CNC cutter then throw it away.