I'm trying to ID a '68 Rootes engine

[c.williams.aia]

I have a complete Rootes Group engine on my shop floor and am trying to ID it. It has 1968 casting dates on both the block and head and looks like a 1725 motor. The head is cast iron instead of the usual Alpine aluminum and has a single Stromberg downdraft carb on a cast iron intake. Not sure how to ID this, but my guess is that it's a Talbot or Minx low-compression motor using the 1725 block. Can anyone assist? I'll take a digital pix of it and see if I can figure out how to upload it later this afternoon.

Thank you!!

C. Williams

 

[Alpine Addict]

Can you provide the serial number of the engine? This should be on the block above the fuel pump.

 

[RootesRooter]

Given the 1968 casting date, likely from a Sunbeam Arrow or possibly an Alpine Coupe fastback. Both used the single Stromberg. I don't think the Coupe version of the fastback came out til '69.

 

[c.williams.aia]

Pix of Rootes '68 production year motor

I've uploaded some digital pix of this motor. Again, this one looks like a 1725 block with a cast iron, single downdraft carb head. The engine number and casting date are shown on one picture.

Anyone hazard a guess on this? Rapier? Arrow? Humber? I guess maybe any one of these.

This is going into the classifieds so if anyone has an idea of its value I would be interested.

Thanks!

 

[RootesRacer]

I've uploaded some digital pix of this motor. Again, this one looks like a 1725 block with a cast iron, single downdraft carb head. The engine number and casting date are shown on one picture.

Anyone hazard a guess on this? Rapier? Arrow? Humber? I guess maybe any onf these.

Thanks!

Its a basic Alpine GT engine.
Sunbeam Rapier in the UK, Alpine here in the US.

Other than the fact its a single carb iron head motor (making all but the block and crank incompatible with a series alpine engine), the engine itself is the type that is mounted at an angle, and with normal side engine mounts unlike the series alpine which mounts from the front to a plate.

 

[RootesRooter]

The photos confirm it very likely came from either an Arrow or an Alpine Coupe (NOT an Alpine GT or U.K. market Rapier).

If you can locate the VIN on the little shelf just to the left of the oil filter base, someone can tell you exactly what it came from.

 

[RootesRacer]

The photos confirm it very likely came from either an Arrow or an Alpine Coupe (NOT an Alpine GT or U.K. market Rapier).

If you can locate the VIN on the little shelf just to the left of the oil filter base, someone can tell you exactly what it came from.

What would that be doing in the US?

 

[RootesRooter]

What would that be doing in the US?

The twin-carbed Alpine GT fastback was sold in No.America; the same car sold as the Rapier in the U.K. The single-carbed Alpine Coupe was the low-cost version of the fastback and was sold as the Alpine Coupe in both No. America and the U.K.

 

[RootesRacer]

The twin-carbed Alpine GT fastback was sold in No.America; the same car sold as the Rapier in the U.K. The single-carbed Alpine Coupe was the low-cost version of the fastback and was sold as the Alpine Coupe in both No. America and the U.K.

Ive never seen a twin carbed engine, only the single carbed one.

Whats the difference between the GT and coupe?

I assumed all hunter alpines were GTs, never heard mention of the coupe.

 

[c.williams.aia]

VIN on engine block

I did locate the VIN on this motor. B389000129 LCX. How would I locate a registry of VINs on these to research it?

Thanks for helping me with this!

 

[c.williams.aia]

Norm Miller's research

I emailed Norm Miller on this one and his take is that I have the motor out of a '69 Alpine Coupe sold to the North American market.

CAW.......... Now allI need to do is figure a selling price.

 

[husky drvr]

c.williams.aia,

None of your pics show the oil pan, is it the regular steel sump or the cast aluminum unit?

 

[old grumpy]

Iron power

The iron head are not that hopeless as it may look. With some work on the combustion chamber and a hot camshaft you will be surprised........... if you manage to find a proper inlet and exhaust manifold.

 

[65beam]

rootes engine

rootes racer,
there were many differences between the alpine GT and the alpine. the GT had :

bumper over riders
black surrounds on the headlights
stainless mouldings around the windshield and rear window
wide moulding across the trunk versus narrow on the alpine
1725/ aluminum head
dual 150cds strombergs
insulation on underneath of hood
wood dash with full instruments versus speedo and idiot lights on alpine
upgraded interior
two piece drive shaft with center carrier versus one piece on alpine
full wheel covers versus small hub caps and trim rings on alpine

these are some of the differences . i probably left some things out.the single carb engine has a lot of weird plumbing and valves for the carb that is not on the GT. the GT was a rapier in the UK and the alpine was the alpine in the UK.i own both cars .set them side by side like we do and the differences are very noticeble

 

[65beam]

rootes engine

oops!
forgot that the GT had the aluminum oil pan and the alpine did not .

 

[RootesRacer]

oops!
forgot that the GT had the aluminum oil pan and the alpine did not .

Thats a lot of interesting data.

I dont think I could tell them apart since they are still the same shell right?

I thought all the cars that were the fastback "arrows" were alpine GTs.


In any case (with respect to the above engine) its to an orphan car, and unusable for a series alpine (though Ive seen them installed in alpines).

 

[65beam]

rootes engine

rootes racer,
it could be used in a series alpine. pull the timing cover off and install the series alpine motor mount bracket and set up a cable operated carb linkage and hook it up to the alpine bell housing. they are a bear to keep running so i would say get rid of the head and do the changes . i have one series 5 alpine that has this block in it . i added the mount and changed the cam ,used an aluminum head and a weber.i also have two of these later motors that are the crate motors sold by sunbeam specialties several years ago. they are set up with the right cam for the GT's so they are bolt in for series alpines once the mount bracket is added. one of these crate motors will be in my series 4 once the body is done .

 

[RootesRacer]

rootes racer,
it could be used in a series alpine. pull the timing cover off and install the series alpine motor mount bracket and set up a cable operated carb linkage and hook it up to the alpine bell housing. they are a bear to keep running so i would say get rid of the head and do the changes . i have one series 5 alpine that has this block in it . i added the mount and changed the cam ,used an aluminum head and a weber.i also have two of these later motors that are the crate motors sold by sunbeam specialties several years ago. they are set up with the right cam for the GT's so they are bolt in for series alpines once the mount bracket is added. one of these crate motors will be in my series 4 once the body is done .

By the time you pull and replace that cam, head, intake and exhaust, you are left with the block pistons and crank.

A lot of trouble to use the iron head 5 main in the alpine.

 

[husky drvr]

By the time you pull and replace that cam, head, intake and exhaust, you are left with the block pistons and crank.

A lot of trouble to use the iron head 5 main in the alpine.

That goes without saying. However, it might be considered useful, as is, for a Hillman or other Rootes make that would normally be equipped with an iron head engine.

 

[65beam]

rootes engines

rootes racer,
it's not really a problem since they came without heads. the one that i used in my car had the cam for the iron head. found out the hard way after it was in the car. i have that cam stored away.i installed that motor in the early 80's. they are 40 years old but it's nice to have a new block to start with. i would never install one without checking the bearings and rings first.