Identify my alpine

[jbiii52111]

Hi All,

I have learned a lot from this site, and club can't wait to meet some of you at an event. But before doing so need a little help in identifying my Alpine.

I believe I have a original untouched SIII. Been garaged and cover since 1983. My problem is even after reading the "How to identify you Alpine" I still have questions, sorry for being a newbe.

So attached are some pic's of the data tags. What I can't figure out is I have an extra data tag and my engine # does not match any numbers on data tags?

SAL # 027802
VIN # B9204370 LRX SB
Engine # N391250 CAL
Color # 19 Moonstone White w/Black upholstery & Moonstone piping, blk carpet.

What is confusing is I have an extra tag? The extra tag appears to have been attached at factory as it's under SAL tag and does not look like been tampered with. I'm new to SB, but even the rivet match’s the others?

My head is aluminum not cast iron, and the only other thing I can think of to note is that I have twin Zenith carbs?

Oh, duh the extra tag # SAS-3-64

Any feedback is appreciated

 

[65sunbeam]

Your extra tag was added by the original dealer to comply with a California law that said all car's VIN plates had to have a year of manufacture on it. I own a British car with the same tag (not a Sunbeam) and found out what it meant on another forum. Now you have more proof that you have one of those rare California cars! Does it still have the original black license plates? Another big plus! Welcome. Eric

 

[Alpine Addict]

The chassis number B92xxx is a series 3 Alpine.

The engine number I am unsure of. The engine number is stamped on the engine just above the fuel pump. If the car has the original engine this will match the chassis number.

The engine should have the aluminium head and the twin zeniths were fitted to series 3 cars.

The link below may be useful

http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?categoryid=16
http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?categoryid=83

 

[jbiii52111]

Links got me this far

Hi Alpine Addict,

Thanks for the links, these are what got me thus far to ask the questions somewhat intellegently.

The engine # is where you say, and I was just wondering. Did thye change engines for export, non-standard? i.e. LRX = L - export, R - export, X - nonstandard? Especially for California?

The interesting part is the -CAL at the end of engine #. The Shell sticker in stuck to the inner front fender says change oil at 48600, and the car is at 48k?

I guess I am still trying to learn, is it that simple "if engine & chassis # dont match then the engine has been changed? Why would this be the case if such low milage?

 

[jbiii52111]

Should have answered both responses

Sorry Eric,

Thanks for the feedback as well, thought I could answer individually.

So yes it still has the original black plates. AS you can tell I'm still little perplexed as to do I have the original engine? Or an original engine just not the one that came from factory, or something else?

If the later is the case then OMG where to start?


jbiii

 

[RootesRooter]

The engine # is odd. Owners did tend to blow them up occasionally even when new, but dealer replacements from the factory were usually un-numbered.

Do you know the capacity? It may state the cc's and date of manufacture in raised numbers on the block just above the starter.

Or, does it have a dipstick tube to the oilpan or does the stick go directly into the block?

 

[alpine_64]

The californian cars seemed to get these tags.. they seems to stand for SUNBEAM ALPINE SERIES X YEAR

my 1963 SII Alpine

SAS263

 

[P. Scofield]

I have parted a couple cars with that little black plastic tag. I kept them with the VIN and SAL tags and have them with the titles. Didn't know that was a CA thing but do now!

Paul

 

[jbiii52111]

More numbers from block

Good Morning Gent's,

Thank you for the feedback & questions. Ok, so now the tag makes a little more sense SAS-3-64 ( even though 63 ), probably arrived in states in 64?

So yes there are #'s on the block just above starter. Of course because I just put back on the intake, carbs and exhaust. Little cleaning and I found three sets of # on the starter side;

About mid-block "1980707" easy to read.
Low and just beside starter "5-12-61"
And then a single digit all by itself about 2 inches above date "6"
I could not find CC's, but assume (love/hate that word assume) its 1592cc?

The dipstick goes directly into the oil pan.

So to add more complexity to this I read a document found on this site, "Production changes by year, serial number and event". The question I have is when ordering parts I'm asked "early or late year"? If my SB was just before the swap to Solex carbs, what would my answer be? I've been saying mid year, or claiming the 5th

jbiii

 

[Bill Blue]

Back in the day, cars were commonly titled as the year sold. I had a very early Series II, probably built in late 60 or 61, but titled as a 63.

The speedos commonly crap out by about 60,000 miles. Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain or the speedo in the car. Especially after 46 years.

Bill

 

[sammaw@bellsout]

I believe the "5-12-61 " would indicate the block casting date of
December 5, 1961

 

[jbiii52111]

Date

Hi guy's

I was thinking May 12 1961. I know in EU they use yyyy/mm/dd sometimes?

At what point can I say this is or is not the stock engine? I will wait for Paul to answer the dipstick question, it may at least tell me if it is a 1592cc.

So then I can order water pump.

jbiii

 

[husky drvr]

The oil dip stick and the block casting date can only indicate that it's NOT a 1725. It could be a 1390, 1494, or, 1592.

The stamped engine number should start with a "B" for the 1960 decade and have seven digits. Your indicated engine number seems to be non-standard, particularly the "CAL" suffix ( probably re-stamped to meet another California regulation).

I don't think you will figure out what you have short of a tear down.

Good luck,

 

[jbiii52111]

Bumber

Husky drvr,

Thanks for the input, not what I was hoping for, but valuable info just the same.

From hwat I've read, learned, in the last couple of days, weeks I thought they only had 1592's for this model?

So measure the cylinders, if and or when I tear it down is the only way?

jbiii

 

[lemansvk]

I'd be guessing that your non-matching engine number has been issued by the licensing/registration authority in California. Remembering that replacement blocks came from the factory with no engine #, where I live (in Canberra, Australia), the registration authority requires engines to have numbers and would issue one to a blank block- the owner then has to get this stamped in. My guess is that some DPO blew up the engine and a dealer pulled an unstamped factory block out of stock to replace it.

The casting date 5/12/61 means 5 December 1961 - standard British way of writing the date. Otherwise the block in my car was cast on the 3rd day of the 19th month, which seems improbable . As a late December 1961 casting it would be highly unlikely to be anything other than a 1592. By that date Rootes were putting the 1592 into most things including the basic Hillman Minx.

Your chassis number B9204370 indicates the car was built in the week ending 9 August 1963 (you can find that out on this site under 'Technical Data - Production Build Dates - Series 3)

Hope this helps.

Vic

 

[Alpine Addict]

I would check the number on the abock above the fuel pump. This number should be on a flat surface. You may need to clean the area as the numbers are stamped into the block.

 

[husky drvr]

The casting date 5/12/61 means 5 December 1961 - standard British way of writing the date. Otherwise the block in my car was cast on the 3rd day of the 19th month, which seems improbable . As a late December 1961 casting it would be highly unlikely to be anything other than a 1592. By that date Rootes were putting the 1592 into most things including the basic Hillman Minx.

Vic

Thanks Vic,

I was thinking the Minx change (1500 -> 1600) occurred the following year and didn't have a chance to look it up. The Husky did continue to use the 1390, though North American SIII's were equipped with the 1600. The real question is going to be if the ID was placed on a dealer's replacement engine or a machine shop's exchanged, replacement engine? Odds are that it should be a 1592.

jbiii,

As for your water pump, I believe your choice is a bit limited as to what is available.

Good luck,

 

[jbiii52111]

gone 4 awhile

Thank you guy's. I think I may have fixed waterpump, just a little rusty.

As for the engine swap, at least my search area is limited to San Fransisco. Bought in SF, and stayed in SF, even has a Shell oil change sticker back when the phone #'s were 6-5544. Wow.