RootesRich
Donation Time
Anyone have the specs for the valve springs needed when running a Holbay E128 cam? Or better yet a source for NOS or the equivalent part number through Comp Cams, etc?
Thanks!
Thanks!
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Holbay valve spring specs for E128 Cam
- Thread starter RootesRich
- Start date
Jay Laifman
Donation Time
I do believe I have the information somewhere. It may take a while to I can find it. Jarrid is probably a good source for the right thing to do - regardless of what some old 60's papers say.
RootesRich
Donation Time
Thanks Jay. I can't seem to find the spring specs in any of my Holbay documentation.
RootesRooter
Donation Time
When I researched the parts numbers several years ago, I found that the Holbay springs were Rootes parts originally used on a late Mark Husky or Minx. I've don't know what the spring rates were but they couldn't have been very high, certainly no more than a Series spring. I suspect they were used because they weren't very thick and didn't bind up under the high-lift Holbay cam, and Rootes/Chrysler UK didn't want to spend money developing a new spring.
Higher rate springs are available from Isky, tho you'll have to search the catalog very carefully to find them
Higher rate springs are available from Isky, tho you'll have to search the catalog very carefully to find them
RootesRacer
Donation Time
E128 and the H120 cams are apples and oranges.
The H120 cam is a low RPM cam and the stock arrow single valve springs were probably suitable.
The E128 needed more rate and seating pressure because it produced higher RPM to make its higher horse power.
Holbay surely had special springs they sold but these would not have been OEM.
Let me look into my docs for what I used, I do know I used dual springs from Crane cams. IIRC there was only one set that was suitable based on the spring diameter and spring length and rates.
The H120 cam is a low RPM cam and the stock arrow single valve springs were probably suitable.
The E128 needed more rate and seating pressure because it produced higher RPM to make its higher horse power.
Holbay surely had special springs they sold but these would not have been OEM.
Let me look into my docs for what I used, I do know I used dual springs from Crane cams. IIRC there was only one set that was suitable based on the spring diameter and spring length and rates.
Jay Laifman
Donation Time
Oh. Jarrid raised a point that struck a memory. I used an NOS Holbay H120 head that I got from Rick. I'm pretty sure it had dual springs.
Jarrid, I sent you an email the other day about electro magnetic valves. But, I used an old email address. Perhaps it never got to you.
Jay
Jarrid, I sent you an email the other day about electro magnetic valves. But, I used an old email address. Perhaps it never got to you.
Jay
RootesRich
Donation Time
For those still interested in this thread, I went through all my Holbay documentation and Holbay referred to the valve springs for the E128 cam as "Mark II" springs. I'd still like to know the free length and spring rates or an aftermarket equivalent. I agree with Jarrid's statement that these were certainly not OEM.
I did come across the specs on the H120 springs. This is on Holbay letterhead so I have no reason to doubt the specs:
Valve spring free length: Inner, 1.584 in. ; outer 1.694 in.
Valve spring rate (Fitted load): Inner 28.3 lb at 1.280 in; Outer 52 lb at 1.4 in
I did come across the specs on the H120 springs. This is on Holbay letterhead so I have no reason to doubt the specs:
Valve spring free length: Inner, 1.584 in. ; outer 1.694 in.
Valve spring rate (Fitted load): Inner 28.3 lb at 1.280 in; Outer 52 lb at 1.4 in
RootesRacer
Donation Time
H120 doesnt demand much of the springs. One could consider it an RV cam grind.
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Jay Laifman
Donation Time
We must have the same sheet. I just went through my stuff. I wrote to Holbay in 1995 when I was trying to find an exhaust header that had larger pipes to match the larger Holbay head. They sent me a bunch of stuff about what they offered. It included a three page IBM Courier typed spec sheet.
I also have copies of pages from the "Chrysler United Kingdom WSM.149" that gives the same information.
They both give lots of other info too.
I note that the Holbay pages give the E128 (aka Tornado) cam timing only.
The WSM gives different numbers - but the WSM numbers do not match the H120 cam or the "Holbay (Sunbeam Specialties)" that Jan Servaites listed in an article once. Here are all those cams if anyone cares:
BTDC IN / ABDC IN / BBDC EX / ATDC EX
Holbay H120 - 44 / 51 / 69 / 26 Lift .436
Holbay (SS) - 27 / 60 / 62 / 25 Lift .427
Holbay E128 - 35 / 60 / 60 / 30 Lift .465
WSM Chrysler - 58 / 66 / 84 / 40 Lift N/A
Elgin #6708 - 23 / 65 / 65 / 23 Lift .433
Delta L2 grind - 22 / 63 / 63 / 22 Lift .438
Isky SB-2 - 22 / 62 / 62 / 22 Lift .430
I have no idea which one I have!
I also have copies of pages from the "Chrysler United Kingdom WSM.149" that gives the same information.
They both give lots of other info too.
I note that the Holbay pages give the E128 (aka Tornado) cam timing only.
The WSM gives different numbers - but the WSM numbers do not match the H120 cam or the "Holbay (Sunbeam Specialties)" that Jan Servaites listed in an article once. Here are all those cams if anyone cares:
BTDC IN / ABDC IN / BBDC EX / ATDC EX
Holbay H120 - 44 / 51 / 69 / 26 Lift .436
Holbay (SS) - 27 / 60 / 62 / 25 Lift .427
Holbay E128 - 35 / 60 / 60 / 30 Lift .465
WSM Chrysler - 58 / 66 / 84 / 40 Lift N/A
Elgin #6708 - 23 / 65 / 65 / 23 Lift .433
Delta L2 grind - 22 / 63 / 63 / 22 Lift .438
Isky SB-2 - 22 / 62 / 62 / 22 Lift .430
I have no idea which one I have!
RootesRich
Donation Time
E128 valve spring specs per Richard at Coltec:
85 lbs seat pressure
220 lbs nose pressure
1.7" free length
Installed height 1.350" (85lbs)
0.450" lift (330 lbs)
Coltec actually sourced these springs from R/D Valve Springs in California. Part No 1005.
Richard claims these springs are stronger than needed and can handle rpm up to 10,000, but at least I have a source now!
BTW, Coltec no longer supplies the E128 cam.
85 lbs seat pressure
220 lbs nose pressure
1.7" free length
Installed height 1.350" (85lbs)
0.450" lift (330 lbs)
Coltec actually sourced these springs from R/D Valve Springs in California. Part No 1005.
Richard claims these springs are stronger than needed and can handle rpm up to 10,000, but at least I have a source now!
BTW, Coltec no longer supplies the E128 cam.
RootesRooter
Donation Time
For future reference, here are the valve spring rates as per the WSMs for aluminum head 1725 engines:
1725 Light
Range Man. / Arrow Range / H120
Inner 35.9 / 21.2 / 28.3
Outer 70.8 / 50.5 / 52.0
Isky's catalog lists combined inner/outer spring part numbers 625/626 for "Sunbeam-Hillman" as having a "seat pressure" of 70lbs, and a "Spring Rate lbs Per Inch" of 300.
1725 Light
Range Man. / Arrow Range / H120
Inner 35.9 / 21.2 / 28.3
Outer 70.8 / 50.5 / 52.0
Isky's catalog lists combined inner/outer spring part numbers 625/626 for "Sunbeam-Hillman" as having a "seat pressure" of 70lbs, and a "Spring Rate lbs Per Inch" of 300.
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Hi All
Jay provided a good lists of camshafts, I just thought I add the Piper Cam
that I am running, Its a model HR270. In 37/71, ex 71/37, full lift is 107 degrees and on both inlet and exhaust and lift in inches is at TDC is .054 on inlet and .052 on exhaust. Motor pulls hard in mid range. Piper cams came from the UK this one I purchased in the mid 1990's . Some one else might know more the history of them.
Albeam
Jay provided a good lists of camshafts, I just thought I add the Piper Cam
that I am running, Its a model HR270. In 37/71, ex 71/37, full lift is 107 degrees and on both inlet and exhaust and lift in inches is at TDC is .054 on inlet and .052 on exhaust. Motor pulls hard in mid range. Piper cams came from the UK this one I purchased in the mid 1990's . Some one else might know more the history of them.
Albeam