Has anyone seen this ad for a 5 speed transmission for alpines...

[T.Jack]

I recently found out about Dellow conversions and received the price list below last week (for Alpines). They make the parts to order, so the lead time is 3 weeks, then however long it takes to ship. Still expensive, but a lot less expensive than the one from New Zealand (I think it was closer to $5000 when completed). I'm considering it, but not familiar with what cars the T2 & T3 transmissions came out of or why I'd want one over the other. Your thoughts??

Thanks!!!
Todd

 

[Alpine 1789]

Dellow Conversions:

https://dellowconversions.com.au/

Thanks for correcting that. I just clicked on the link from the 2007 discussion and din't look any further.

 

[DanR]

JUST WENT BACK AND REVISITED THE EBAY LINK!

The transmission looks like it had a "hub" that is fixed to the output shaft ? Am I correct ?

If so, I would not at all be interested in this transmission for an Alpine. Because the Alpine has very close quarters already for the slip yoke that slides into the rear of the transmission. Beware of a troublesome connection even if it can be connected.

Am I seeing what I am seeing

 

[260Alpine]

It looks like a CV flange like the 4.0 V6 Mustang T5. That one can use a rear end yoke for a 8.8 and a slip joint in the driveline. With the cast iron housing it reminds me of a Ford T9 out of a Merkur or Scorpio. It looks like the shifter could be moved forward. You would need higher rear gears for the 4.11 to 1 first and .78 5th.

 

[Bill Blue]

"You would need higher rear gears for the 4.11 to 1 first and .78 5th."

Jim, I don't see any way out of that mess. In order to have a reasonable 1st gear overall ratio, something on the order of a 3.55 would be required. That gives an overall of 14.5. However, 5th becomes 2.76! Welcome to downshifting while trying to keep up on the interstate.

Just put a 3.55 (11:1 1st) in an Alpine be happy with it.

Bill

 

[DanR]

I have a '78 Mutt II rear assy 3.55 that has been stored for a few years until the right time to fix for the Alpine. The 3.55 is a good gear for the V6.

 

[RevolverRob]

Hi folks,

A bit late to the discussion. I looked at the Ebay auction for quite a while, trying to figure out what this transmission "was". After comparing a 4-speed Rootes box and a Ford T9, I believe that what this gearbox is, is a mashup of those two gearboxes. Some eyeball and quick measuring tape measurements, confirmed that the T9 mainshaft and layshaft would in fact fit in a Rootes case. In the case of the T9, the overdrive gear is on the mainshaft, outside, of the main case in the tailhousing area. This is because the T9 is really merely a Ford Rocket 4-speed with an additional gear tacked on. From examining the whole thing, I suspect that someone has basically taken a Rootes main case, stuffed it with T9 guts, fabricated a set of shift rods (possibly reusing the old Rootes shift rods), and then fabricated a custom tailhousing to hold 5th gear and mate to the Rootes case.

If that is the case, then it is an interesting design and as far as I know, the first Rootes-specific 5-speed (excepting the Laycock ODs of course) designed.

That said, it's not hard to rework a Rootes bellhousing to attach to a T9, which would be easier to rebuild/address parts concerns for in the future. Of course, getting a T9 in the 'States remains the problem.

FWIW, I've spoken to the Lakewood folks about custom bellhousings. They've said, if they have the pattern(s) for the engine side and transide, they can make it. I thought about sending them a spare bellhousing and asking them to build me a Rootes-To-T5 specific bellhousing. But then I decided to move in a different direction and forego a Rootes-based drivetrain entirely.

 

[George Coleman]

Just a note I have a shop manual for the T-9 gearbox if anyone is interested, it covers the trans. and the car which is a Mercury Makur

 

[DanR]

Just a note I have a shop manual for the T-9 gearbox if anyone is interested, it covers the trans. and the car which is a Mercury Makur

Do you plan to sell? If so, How about including me!

 

[RootesRacer]

Hi folks,

A bit late to the discussion. I looked at the Ebay auction for quite a while, trying to figure out what this transmission "was". After comparing a 4-speed Rootes box and a Ford T9, I believe that what this gearbox is, is a mashup of those two gearboxes. Some eyeball and quick measuring tape measurements, confirmed that the T9 mainshaft and layshaft would in fact fit in a Rootes case. In the case of the T9, the overdrive gear is on the mainshaft, outside, of the main case in the tailhousing area. This is because the T9 is really merely a Ford Rocket 4-speed with an additional gear tacked on. From examining the whole thing, I suspect that someone has basically taken a Rootes main case, stuffed it with T9 guts, fabricated a set of shift rods (possibly reusing the old Rootes shift rods), and then fabricated a custom tailhousing to hold 5th gear and mate to the Rootes case.

If that is the case, then it is an interesting design and as far as I know, the first Rootes-specific 5-speed (excepting the Laycock ODs of course) designed.

That said, it's not hard to rework a Rootes bellhousing to attach to a T9, which would be easier to rebuild/address parts concerns for in the future. Of course, getting a T9 in the 'States remains the problem.

FWIW, I've spoken to the Lakewood folks about custom bellhousings. They've said, if they have the pattern(s) for the engine side and transide, they can make it. I thought about sending them a spare bellhousing and asking them to build me a Rootes-To-T5 specific bellhousing. But then I decided to move in a different direction and forego a Rootes-based drivetrain entirely.

No, this box has nothing to do with the type 9. The only thing it has in common with the type 9 is that it also appears to be a 4 speed trans that was re-engineered to be a 5 speed. It also seems to have nothing to do with any rootes or jensen bits. I am intrigued but with a short bit of investigation, I was not able to figure out anything about the actual application. The tail shaft cover does look to be a rough sandcasting though.

I'll look around and if I figure it out, I'll update with what I find.

It does look like a cast iron version of a mid 70s lotus (eclat) transmission with a cobbled shifter system.

 

[George Coleman]

I had a Type 9 and was going to put it in a Alpine but to much cutting so I went with a Toyota T-50 and no cutting the Type 9 would require the the same mods as if you used a Toyota W-50 box

 

[RevolverRob]

No, this box has nothing to do with the type 9. The only thing it has in common with the type 9 is that it also appears to be a 4 speed trans that was re-engineered to be a 5 speed. It also seems to have nothing to do with any rootes or jensen bits. I am intrigued but with a short bit of investigation, I was not able to figure out anything about the actual application. The tail shaft cover does look to be a rough sandcasting though.

I'll look around and if I figure it out, I'll update with what I find.

It does look like a cast iron version of a mid 70s lotus (eclat) transmission with a cobbled shifter system.

To be clear, I'm not proposing it is a Type-9 so-to-speak. Merely that perhaps it is a Type-9 gearset fitted into a Rootes case, potentially using Rootes-type shift forks. My eyeball and measuring tape measurements would suggest it is possible to do something like that, but it would require a new tailhousing. It clearly is not using a Type-9 shift rod, that much is clear, because there is no forward projecting shift-fork shaft. The rough tailhousing has a look reminiscent of a T9 as well.

I looked at various Lotus gearboxes myself, but Elite and Eclat and all of those have shifters built into the tailhousing, nothing like the shifter found in a Rootes box or this enigmatic 5-speed, so I don't think that is the source of this box, either. Nor do the various MG five speeds or ZF boxes I've seen.

Whatever this box is, it's some kind of hybrid of a Rootes + something else. What the something else is, is the interesting part.

 

[RootesRacer]

To be clear, I'm not proposing it is a Type-9 so-to-speak. Merely that perhaps it is a Type-9 gearset fitted into a Rootes case, potentially using Rootes-type shift forks. My eyeball and measuring tape measurements would suggest it is possible to do something like that, but it would require a new tailhousing. It clearly is not using a Type-9 shift rod, that much is clear, because there is no forward projecting shift-fork shaft. The rough tailhousing has a look reminiscent of a T9 as well.

I looked at various Lotus gearboxes myself, but Elite and Eclat and all of those have shifters built into the tailhousing, nothing like the shifter found in a Rootes box or this enigmatic 5-speed, so I don't think that is the source of this box, either. Nor do the various MG five speeds or ZF boxes I've seen.

Whatever this box is, it's some kind of hybrid of a Rootes + something else. What the something else is, is the interesting part.

Your "I believe that what this gearbox is, is a mashup of those two gearboxes" statement had me thinking that you thought this has something to do with
either the rootes box, or the type 9 box.

I can assure you it has nothing to do with either (not even a mashup of cases and internal gearsets).
The case of the gearbox is not a rootes type, or at least not one I have ever seen.
That it happens to have 25 splines may only be circumstantial in relation to hunter transmissions having 25 splines.
The seller is "confused?" about earlier jensen/rootes boxes having 11 splines, they had 10 (Type 9s had 10 or 23).

Looking at the trans in greater detail, I still think it has something to do with the Lotus gearbox as though the lotus boxes are alloy
and have an integral shifter, the shifter casting is removable in a way that looks like how the shifter was grafted to the setup for sale.
The toploading cover even looks to have the same bolt pattern (as the eclat transmission), as does the rear extension housing shape and fastener positions.

Lotus was not a great innovator back then, they borrowed other companies successes and reinvented them as their own.
This said, its my bet that whatever production vehicle this transmission is from, Lotus either licensed or copied the design and refactored it for the Elite/Eclat.
The Germans were fond of having flanged transmission couplings, I'll bet the trans is German but probably not a Getrag.