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Got Vader a trans
- Thread starter Jim E
- Start date
Mark T
Donation Time
Congratulations Jim! Really looking forward to meeting you and Vader at Invasion!
What did you use for a pilot bearing with your T5? I bought one for a '78 2.8 but the bearing ID was too small for the input shaft of the '97 3.8 T5 that I have. The hole in the crank is 21 mm and the shaft on the T5 is 17mm so the difference is too small for a needle bearing. I'm having a machine shop make up a brass bushing instead.
What did you use for a pilot bearing with your T5? I bought one for a '78 2.8 but the bearing ID was too small for the input shaft of the '97 3.8 T5 that I have. The hole in the crank is 21 mm and the shaft on the T5 is 17mm so the difference is too small for a needle bearing. I'm having a machine shop make up a brass bushing instead.
Jim E
Donation Time
Thanks Dwain you have no idea how happy I am to have the car up and running again.
Jeff Scoville
Donation Time
Cool Beans Jim,
Looking forward to being drawn into "The dark Side!"
Looking forward to being drawn into "The dark Side!"
Mark T
Donation Time
When I suggested that to a local machinist he said that if he reduced the spud he might go below the hardened part of the steel. He said that a brass bushing should work OK as long as I keep it under 8,000 RPM. I hope that he's right!
Jim E
Donation Time
Just went and put the hood back on the 3 and drove it home. Did fine but the speedometer calibration is way off need to figure out how to do that again. The carrier I got from Eric G. is a good one very quiet and the T5 shifts up and down with no problem. The yard said it had 70k on it, for the money the 3.8 T5 is they way to go IMO.
Jim, I know that Jose thinks that will produce a wall thickness that is too thin. But as usual, I disagree. If my 6th math math is correct, the new bushing will have walls 2 mm. thick. That's 80 thou, thicker than many commercial bushings. Anyway, the idea is for the crankshaft to support the bush, the bush supplies a bearing surface. Look at the bearing material thickness on your rod bearings. And it's lead based.
I think the machinist is correct when he says the bush is probably good up to about 8K, probably the limit for a brass bush, regardless of wall thickness.
Bill
Jim E
Donation Time
Do you think you could drive the bushing into the end of the crank without deforming it? I am all for it if it will work, would sure be easier than pulling the input shaft out of the trans...being when I did it on my new unit all the roller bearings fell out into the case... hate it when that happens.
Yes. After making the bushing, take a piece 7/8" or larger cold rolled steel (or drill rod) and turn about an inch of it to the I.D. of the bushing. Cut it off 4-6" long, trim up the business end and your in business.
Save it for when you have to remove the old bushing. When that happens, fill the bushing with grease, start the driver in the bushing and give it a sharp rap with a hammer. The bushing will pop right out.
Bill
Mark T
Donation Time
Sounds like a great plan! Thanks Bill!
Jeff Scoville
Donation Time
Just wondering here.
If in fact it were not a good idea to thin the bushing, wouldn't it be easier to machine the flywheel to accept the correct bushing than to pull the tranny all apart to reduce the input shaft?
I'm sure you all had looked into this, just wondered what the answer was.
If in fact it were not a good idea to thin the bushing, wouldn't it be easier to machine the flywheel to accept the correct bushing than to pull the tranny all apart to reduce the input shaft?
I'm sure you all had looked into this, just wondered what the answer was.
Jim E
Donation Time
The pilot bearing goes in the crank on this one so would have to do the enlargement when you built the engine. Pulling the input shaft is not all that bad just four bolts to take off the bearing retainer which has to come off anyway to be turned down to fit teh bell housing. The input shaft will slide right out and if you keep the trans level the needle bearings will stay in place 99% of the time
If Mark does have a bronze bushing make for him, we will see if it lasts as long as a needle roller bearing does. You have never seen a bronze pilot bushing that doesn't have at least a .500 thickness wall. They don't last very long, even with walls that thick, so we'll see just how well it works out.
Like Jim said, pulling the input shaft to have the pilot bearing spud ground down, isn't that hard. The T5 was designed so that the input shaft can be removed without disassembling the rest of the transmission, like some of the older designs do. I feel it is the professional way to solve the problem, rather than cheaping out and use a thin wall bronze bushing. I like saving money as much as the next guy, but sometimes it is cheaper to do it right the first time, than to cut corners and pay later.
Jose
Like Jim said, pulling the input shaft to have the pilot bearing spud ground down, isn't that hard. The T5 was designed so that the input shaft can be removed without disassembling the rest of the transmission, like some of the older designs do. I feel it is the professional way to solve the problem, rather than cheaping out and use a thin wall bronze bushing. I like saving money as much as the next guy, but sometimes it is cheaper to do it right the first time, than to cut corners and pay later.
Jose
Jose, I will grant that the bushing is probably not as good as a roller, especially if it is brass and not bronze bearing material. But I would hazard a guess that after that 1/2" wall wears, oh say 20 thou, it isn't going to do much good. Where is the side thrust that kills bushings?
My experience with the "made to order" bronze bushings is very limited. In 1974 I put a heavy duty 3 speed in my Gremlin. The pilot shaft on that trans was considerably larger than on the old transmission. Dad made up a new pilot bearing (on the farm, no less) put a dab of grease on it and put it in. It was of necessity a thin wall. Way less than 100 thou. Maybe it would not have lasted as long as a roller, but at 130,000 miles it was still doing just fine. But the car had almost 250,000 on it and I junked it.
Bill
My experience with the "made to order" bronze bushings is very limited. In 1974 I put a heavy duty 3 speed in my Gremlin. The pilot shaft on that trans was considerably larger than on the old transmission. Dad made up a new pilot bearing (on the farm, no less) put a dab of grease on it and put it in. It was of necessity a thin wall. Way less than 100 thou. Maybe it would not have lasted as long as a roller, but at 130,000 miles it was still doing just fine. But the car had almost 250,000 on it and I junked it.
Bill
Did a little net search and discovered the following:
3/4" (essentially 17 mm) bronze bearing material is available commercially with a .062" wall. 80 thou should not be a problem.
The rpm limit for 17 mm Oilite bearings is about 5500 rpm. At first, this seems like a limiting factor, but remember we are not really interested in rpm, but the difference in the rpm of engine and input shaft. On a 7000 rpm shift, this will be about 2500 rpm. So as long as you don't rev over 5500 with the clutch down and standing still, you will be within spec. If you do over rev, the bearing will not instantly distruct, but will have shortened life.
Bill
3/4" (essentially 17 mm) bronze bearing material is available commercially with a .062" wall. 80 thou should not be a problem.
The rpm limit for 17 mm Oilite bearings is about 5500 rpm. At first, this seems like a limiting factor, but remember we are not really interested in rpm, but the difference in the rpm of engine and input shaft. On a 7000 rpm shift, this will be about 2500 rpm. So as long as you don't rev over 5500 with the clutch down and standing still, you will be within spec. If you do over rev, the bearing will not instantly distruct, but will have shortened life.
Bill