Generator vs Alternator

[NW63GT]

I am working with my 63 Alpine and after it sitting idle for many years, it is now back on the road. The red light next to the key has been on since I started the refurbishment on the car, and I assumed it was likely the generator but had bigger issues at the time. Driving it for it longest run (20 miles) yesterday, I am convinced that the generator is bad. I did put a new battery in it, and that seemed to last the trip, but it was not able to crank the car at the end of the drive. Charged it up, and it was fine again.
In a perfect world, I would rush down to the parts store and buy a new generator. Here is what I have run into:
The new generator on-line does not look like my stock one as it has different mounts, etc..
I have scoured the forum for hints on rebuilding the generator vs changing to the new alternator set up. I would like to stay original, but can by swayed.
Hopefully this leads to a simple question. Is the generator a simple rebuild at a local motor wiring shop, or are the newer looking generators the most cost effective option?
Related ?: The only thing that is being run off the generator, aside from stock hardware are two Lucas large rally lights on the front, they don't seem real bright when on - maybe related to the bad generator?

 

[steven]

There is a company making alternators that look like the old generators. You get the higher performance without changing the layout.

 

[RootesRacer]

Consider that the regulator also has to work.

Also....
If the generator was built and polarized as a negative ground generator and you are using it as a positive ground (or vice versa) then you will need to polarize the field coil before the generator will function and the regulator will regulate.

 

[NW63GT]

Alternator looks like Generator

There is a company making alternators that look like the old generators. You get the higher performance without changing the layout.

*Found it: http://www.jegs.com/p/Powermaster/Powermaster-PowerGEN-Alternators/757123/10002/-1

Very cool, but I am balancing budget with the value of what I hope to have as a weekend driver. The price is reasonable, but a local British fan called me with a shop in town (Portland, OR) that has a history of success in rebuilding the generators. The one in the car now looks original and made it 53 years, I will try and squeeze a few more years out of it. I was told the rebuild and testing of related items is under $100. Thank you very much for the reply.

 

[Tom H]

The most likely problem with the generator is that the brushes need to be replaced. Or possibly the regulator is bad or out of adjustment. You really need to review the troubleshooting steps in the WSM. But again, most likely you just need to replace the brushes. On the way home from my wedding rehearsal 50 years ago, the ignition light on my SIV came on. I removed the generator in the dark, replaced the brushes on my workbench, re-installed the generator, got to the church the next morning and me an my bride took the Alpine on a 1 week road trip for our honeymoon. Had no electrical issues.

Good luck.

Tom

 

[alpine_64]

on. I removed the generator in the dark, replaced the brushes on my workbench, re-installed the generator, got to the church the next morning and me an my bride took the Alpine on a 1 week road trip for our honeymoon. Had no electrical issues.

Good luck.

Tom

Put the spark into the honeymoon... Sorry couldnt help it... I know its mote an ignition reference... But on a honeymoon its not about recharging the batteries

 

[NW63GT]

The most likely problem with the generator is that the brushes need to be replaced. Or possibly the regulator is bad or out of adjustment. You really need to review the troubleshooting steps in the WSM. But again, most likely you just need to replace the brushes. On the way home from my wedding rehearsal 50 years ago, the ignition light on my SIV came on. I removed the generator in the dark, replaced the brushes on my workbench, re-installed the generator, got to the church the next morning and me an my bride took the Alpine on a 1 week road trip for our honeymoon. Had no electrical issues.

Good luck.

Tom

Wow, great story. I will keep the light on, already married but I promise to give the brushes a try before taking to the shop and will report back. Funny that I asked my dad this evening about his thoughts on Alt., vs Regulator. Keeping in mind he is mid 90's, he stated that those damn generators always needed brushes. That should have tipped me off that it might be brushes. It will be a couple weeks before I have time to get back to it. Thanks much. I would reply longer, but someone already beat me to the "spark" comment

 

[Paul A]

I agree with others that the issue is most likely the brushes. It is not uncommon - and not difficult to remedy. The brushes can easily be replaced. A proper "fix" would include bearing inspection/possible replacement and cleaning and/or turning the commutator. Clean the commutator with a fine grade of sandpaper if it appears to be in good condition and wipe down with a clean cloth. Do not use any type of solvent on the commutator. Also, be sure the brush frame springs are in good condition and maintain tension on the brush.

There are several additional tests that can be done if you have a growler.

Remember to polarize the generator when reinstalled. Polarize the generator by momentarily contacting the "BAT" terminal of the voltage regulator to the "GEN" or "ARM" terminal using a jumper wire.

Rebuilt Lucas generators are not hard to find as they were used in a variety of applications, including older farm tractors. A quick search via Google, Yahoo or some other engine will turn up quite a few for sale.

 

[NW63GT]

Update

Tom/Paul, and others who responded to Alt vs Gen. question. Thank you. I have been traveling for a couple weeks, so I was not able to dig into the car until this weekend. I pulled the generator and breaking it open with a gentle tap, it was easy to identify the culprit. Of the two brushes, only one had a spring. The other was found within the housing when I shook it, it had broken. So, new brushes and springs will be ordered on Monday w/ a 5 day delivery time. Ideally the red light that signaled the problem will go away once I replace these items. Update to follow when done.....Still on track to have the car in good running shape for spring weather.

 

[snamelc]

Just remember to give that rear bearing a shot of oil while you have the generator out! So hard to do when it's in the car, we tend to forget it.

Bill

 

[NW63GT]

Current Status

Wanting to leave an update, as I hate to not hear how a string ended. I am still hunting the gremlin behind the red light. I have replaced spring (one was broken) and brushes in the generator. That did not fix the light, so the voltage regulator was the next suspect. Replaced last night, and still red light. OK, so I likely took a shortcut and did not properly sand the points, but I did polarize the A and F on the VR. Got the spark. But alas, still red light. Charged the battery, still red light. I "may" have missed on one of the spade terminals as I reinstalled. Soooo, one night this week I will pull off and properly sand the points on the VR, and the spade terminals (even though they are shiny), and try again. I am getting a little movement out of the voltage gauge on the dash, but nothing real impressive...it just moves a small amount to the right and holds steady, it does not move when I hit the gas. I will dink around a bit more before I drive it to the friendly Alpine repairman in Portland. At least I am able to drive it around to continue breaking it back in. Sure seems like the valves tick kind of loud. I redid the gauging of them. This may just be how they sound in 1963? If someone is reading in Portland with an Alpine, I would love to come by and compare noises to see if it is working as it should I drove TR4/6's when younger, but only recall the TR6 noises, and it was a bit more refined as it was a 74. In any event, will keep posting and will let you all know when the red light goes away.

 

[BERNARD ROSE]

Just remember to give that rear bearing a shot of oil while you have the generator out! So hard to do when it's in the car, we tend to forget it.

Bill

I just replaced my generator last fall, but it failed this spring. Apparently, it was not oiled at installation and it just ran dry and was ruined after just a few outings. The shop that sold it to me did not mention that it needed regular oiling, but I suspect that it never had oil...the bushing was worn to shreds, and the keyway on the shaft was eaten away...you get the picture.
Now I had it rebuilt and it is reinstalled, and I oiled it prior to installation even though the shop assured me that they had oiled it. Now that it is installed, I can't easily see a way to add oil because the hole is not accessible without removing the air filter, and even then it is not obvious that I can get at it to add oil. Am I missing something, or is this just a fact of life?