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Front Brake Calipers and Timing Pulley

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by Eleven, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. Eleven

    Eleven Platinum Level Sponsor

    I get a persistent clunking noise up front when ever I put on the brakes. I rebuilt them last year and pulled them to check for problems. Retorqued the mounting bolts also. Rick at SS says that the pins holding the pads will wear the holes they go through and you will get a little slap or some noise. Brakes work fine so no emergency but am wondering if there is another car that the calipers will fit my SV. Can't find any rebuilt Sunbeam ones I trust.
    Also, my timing pulley timing marks are unintelligible. Have had it off but could not make it any better. Any one have a good pulley they want to sell?
     
  2. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor

    There have been a LOT of threads about alternative calipers; you can find them by using the forum search function or Google search.

    Calipers from a '76 (maybe '74 to '78 ???) Mercury Capri are reported to be a bolt-on for Series 3-IV-V Alpines, but have different threads for the hydraulic hose which requires an adapter (not a big deal). Good luck finding the Capri calipers; they have become harder to find than unicorns.

    I have seen posts stating that TR-3 and early TR-4 calipers are also a bolt-on for Series 3-IV-V Alpines. The time period is right and perhaps Triumph used the same Girling 16-P caliper as Series 3-IV-V Alpines. Moss Motors sells ($$$) "new" units (https://mossmotors.com/caliper-assembly-right-new-replacement-illus-b?assoc=72654), so you could probably return them if they don't fit.

    An aftermarket alternative may be the aluminum 4-piston Outlaw M-16 caliper (http://www.outlawdiscbrakes.com/m16.html) which is supposed to be a bolt-on replacement for the Girling 16-P caliper used on Series 3-IV-V Alpines.

    Edited to prevent incorrect assumptions
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019
  3. Eleven

    Eleven Platinum Level Sponsor

    Thank you Barry, I really appreciate your help on this. I am going to back shelf that as I have discovered the cause of a rear end clunk that I have had for years. I have rebushed, changed diff, changed hubs, rotated tires and have a new axle in as well as U joints. Turns out the wheel is rotating about 3/4 of an inch with the brake on. Found it by accident. Other side doesn't. Changed wheels right to left, still moves (have parking brake on). Axle is not moving. Splines look okay and the movement is not repeatable on the other side. Spline size on the driver side ( the side with the movement) is 2 1/4 inch. Could not measure the interior spline size the wheel.
    Huh. Well, brain work I guess.
    BTW, my thanks to you in helping form this club site. Would be lost without it.
     
  4. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor



    Tracy,

    Have never had a car with wire wheels or splined hubs, but lots of posters have reported issues. Good luck figuring it out.

    I was a charter member and post a lot about stuff that interests me, but I can't claim any credit for the success of the club or the forum. That credit goes to the founders, the past officers, the members and the people who worked behind the scenes to make SAOCA and the website what it is today.
     
    Alpine 1789 likes this.
  5. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    BArry I recently had a bad experience buying some 16P calipers.....I thought they all were the same. When they arrived I attempted to install only to find the mount bolt pattern was spaced farther apart than the SIII, SIV & SV Sunbeam.

    Figured I misread so went back to seller. He actually refunded me most of my expense.

    Can't find the Caliper data at the moment, but will post data when I get a chance.

    Just be alert that all 16P's are not applicable to our Sunbeam.
     
  6. Barry

    Barry Platinum Level Sponsor

    Dan,

    Remember that the caliper mount bolt centers are different for early (S-I & II) and late (S-3, IV & V) Series Alpines.

    You may have received calipers for "a" Series Alpine, but not for "the" Series Alpine.
     
  7. beamdream

    beamdream Gold Level Sponsor

    Just been through this exercise with my wire wheels, sounds like spline wear as you have discovered - not brake related.

    Looking at the splines for wear is very subjective if you don't have a rim with good splines to compare with, and not forgetting that if spline wear is a factor, its both rim and hub related. The fact that you can partially rotate the wheel with brake applied is a giveaway; presuming the wheels/hubs are all of the same age the problem will exist on all of the wheels to some extent.

    Another wear point, which is not so obvious are the convex/concave mating surfaces of inner rim to hub and under surface of rim and wheel spinner nut, these should be straight bevelled and not dished or grooved, rather like an outer front wheel bearing cup and cone. This is where the side load applies when you are cornering/turning, if the wheel side loading has play then splines are going to be further affected.

    Sadly I have yet to find anyone with a salvage scheme for these items, so once the wear factor gets too great it`s binwards for the hubs and rims.
     
  8. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

  9. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    Mike, I had a bad experience with some 16P calipers that were advertised for sale.... Thinking "all" 16P calipers were the same bolt pattern!! NOT SO!!

    If there is a way to get the Seller to confirm the bolt pattern "before" purchase or a commitment from them on free return all your money back they may be worth the trouble.

    UPDATE: Have a call in to the Seller of the 16P TR caliper...… awaiting return call now (12:04 3/26/2020)
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  10. 260Alpine

    260Alpine Silver Level Sponsor

    The TR calipers may work for the earlier Series that had 3.5" center to center mounting. the later Series has 3.25" mounting like the Capri.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  11. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    You may be correct (as usual) :)
     
  12. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    I agree with Beamdream that sounds like you are in need of new hubs and wheels.

    Tim R
     
  13. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    I bought Capri calipers from Rock Auto and I found that not all calipers will fit the series 4 and 5 hubs. I found a couple calipers that the mounting surface for the bolts is too thick to let the caliper set square over the rotor. They set at enough of an angle that the rotor will not rotate. This could be due to the steering arms being different for various series. You need to either machine the caliper mounting surface or machine down the steering arm in order for the caliper to set square. This was a problem with two left side calipers so there may be another problem with the cores that were rebuilt but measurements showed a slight difference.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2020
  14. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

    Bob, How recent was your transaction ?
     
  15. 65beam

    65beam Bronze Level Sponsor

    Dan,
    I would need to pull the invoice out of the RHD file but I do know that it was in the last maybe two years. It was whenever Rock Auto marked them NLA because I bought all the stock they had of both sides.
     
  16. DanR

    DanR Diamond Level Sponsor

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