Ford 2.8 cooling

[socorob]

I have a question for the V6ers out there. What thermostat is everyone using, and what part of the US are you in? The reason I ask is because im in the south and am running a 190 degree thermostat, which is what the manual calls for, but seems high to me for a warm climate. Also, what temps does everyones gauge show? Mine always shows over 200, except when the thermostat opens, it will drop to under 200 for awhile. Im guessing its because the thermostat is in the bottom of the engine aand stagnant water will be hotter at the top? Will running a lower thermotat, like around 180 hurt anything? The problem im having is I have a T with a temp switch for my electric fans but its in the upper radiator hose. I think I have about the right temp variation for it to turn off and off in conjuction with a 190 degree thermostat, if it was 190 at the top. I shot the thermostat housing and water neck up top with a laser thermometer and there was about a 30 degree difference.

 

[pcmenten]

Hi Robbie. Lots of people use lower temp thermostats, but it seems like that is a crutch for a cooling system that's not working right for whatever reason. For example, I know that with the Tigers, they have to find ways to vent the engine bay or the engine will overheat.

Here's some food for thought;

the coefficient of friction between aluminum and iron is lowest in the 200^ f. range.

Generally, the hotter you can run the engine, the better it will run. Mostly because of vaporization of fuel, but partially because less heat is absorbed by the engine.

I live in Boise, Idaho and it gets into the 100's every summer. When my 86 Mustang 5.0 was giving me trouble I went through the cooling system; boiled out the radiator, replaced the water pump with an 'export' pump, used a RobertShaw balanced thermostat, used a 60/40 water glycol mix, added water wetter, and made some tweaks to the heater hoses to reduce the amount of water that bypasses the radiator. I use Mobil1 synthetic motor oil as well.

If I was still having trouble I would have found one of the police 5.0 oil coolers (adapts to the oil filter fitting, uses engine coolant to cool the oil).

Other tricks; my favorite radiator guy offers to use special cores with internal 'fins' that improve the operation of the core.

Wrapping/insulating the headers is reported to help. I've never done it but I don't doubt it at all.

And here's a bit of information that many people don't understand; glycol has a higher boiling temperature than water, but water absorbs more heat than glycol; hence the 60/40 mixture.

Sorry if that was a bit long.

 

[bulldurham]

Rob, I am in central NC and run a 180. My temp gauge is the overflow bottle and I use the original radiator tanks w/ an upgraded core w/o electric fans. So far no problems w/ overheating in the flat lands. Mountains??
If you are getting 170/ 180 coolant at the bottom and 200 at the top you are safe it would seem. Getting the fan sensor adjusted is something with which I am not familiar .
A temp. gauge is in my future.

 

[socorob]

Im not overheating, it gets to around 220ish i guess and it stays there. It drops when the thermostat opens. The way I was told to set up a themo switch for an electric fan is to open about 5-10 degress after the themostat opens, so the hot water will be in the radiator when the fan kicks on. I think my switch comes on at 198, and off around 185 I think. The problem is it almost never gets below 200 in the upper radiator hose. Now i need to try to figure out if I should lower the thermostat or raise the switch. The ideal place for the thermostat T would be in the lower radiator hose since the thermostat is there, but thats only a few inches long on my car so i think it would be too cramped to fit it down there.

 

[bulldurham]

I would do every thing I could before pulling out the thermostat, given it's location and those skinny screws, but it might keep you a little cooler at the top.
If I remember you have performance upgrades in your engine and maybe just wants to run a little hotter; at worst, as it is now, it decreases the margin to over heating in slow traffic, assuming it would overheat.
I would try getting the fans going a little earlier and see if it makes a difference.
PC mentions the use of a 60/40 mix, perhaps that could help some as well.

 

[kmathis]

I have a question for the V6ers out there. What thermostat is everyone using, and what part of the US are you in? The reason I ask is because im in the south and am running a 190 degree thermostat, which is what the manual calls for, but seems high to me for a warm climate. Also, what temps does everyones gauge show? Mine always shows over 200, except when the thermostat opens, it will drop to under 200 for awhile. Im guessing its because the thermostat is in the bottom of the engine aand stagnant water will be hotter at the top? Will running a lower thermotat, like around 180 hurt anything? The problem im having is I have a T with a temp switch for my electric fans but its in the upper radiator hose. I think I have about the right temp variation for it to turn off and off in conjuction with a 190 degree thermostat, if it was 190 at the top. I shot the thermostat housing and water neck up top with a laser thermometer and there was about a 30 degree difference.

Hi, Robbie:

I am running a 180 in my v6 and I live in Southern California and I have not had any coolant boil out of the overflow even on the hottest days, or sitting in a Drive Thru. The spec calls for the 195 because of smog reasons and they ran a bit hotter when the Catalytic Converters were added in 1975, one reason for the head modification of drilling extra cooling holes in the heads; they were designed to run hot. At first, when I started driving my car regularly, I thought it was running too hot, but with a 13lb radiator cap, and no water in the overflow, I figured that is the way it is and quit worrying about it.

 

[socorob]

I think ill go to a 180. It has never boiled over or gave me any other reason to think its overheating, I just think that over 200 on my temp gauge is too much. I live in Louisiana and it can get hot here in the summers. When I got the car, the thermostat was stuck open and I had to replace it. I think it took me less time to remove the engine thanit did to replace the thermostat. I had to get new bolts when I did it,and could only find low grade bolts for it. I think they were 6mm, but cant remember the thread pitch or length. Id like to get strong grade this time while I have them out so I wont have to worry about them almost breaking like the originals. Ayone know the exact size of them so I can order strong ones?

 

[bulldurham]

I replaced all the bolts in mine; the long one was twisted so it made sense.
I went to several old hardware stores before finding them and it's been long enough that I don't remember for sure but I think 6mm is correct.
I don't remember the specs but you should be able to determine it by taking one to the h'ware store and matching to their sizing board.

 

[Paul A]

The problem is it almost never gets below 200 in the upper radiator hose. Now i need to try to figure out if I should lower the thermostat or raise the switch. The ideal place for the thermostat T would be in the lower radiator hose since the thermostat is there, but thats only a few inches long on my car so i think it would be too cramped to fit it down there.[/I]

An alternative to placing the fan control sensor in one of the radiator hoses is to use one of the units available from Ron Francis. He has available a fan controller sensor that mounts under an engine bolt and measures the temp of the block. According to the catalog info it has an adjustable operating range of approximately 140 degrees to 230 degrees with an exclusive lug sensor that mounts under almost any engine bolt.

This is the fan sensor I intend to use with my V6 project.

 

[coupe]

Hi Robbie,
I live in knoxville TN. and mine reads 200 all the time, maybe a little higher cause I have only 200 miles on it. I called TPI GAGES and they suggested my sensor wasn't far enough into the water with a 180 stat. I have had water burb out cause of a faulty stat seal (cracked) but no over heats and no large quantities of water in the bottle. I put in 30 to 40% glycol and water wetter to make sure she stays cool during break-in. It's too cold to see what goes on now, have to wait till the hot wx starts. Jose says don't worry cause they are made to run hotter cause the design was in the smog control era so with in reason high temps are ok.
Joe

 

[socorob]

TPI told me the same thing and when I moved it to the tapped plug under the water inlet it starte showing about 20 degrees higher. It never boils over and never has excess water in the overflow. I'm going to switch to a 180 tstat and see if that works with my 198 fan switch better. If not I'll have to raise the temp of the switch so my fans work properly with the tstat.

 

[DanR]

Kelly, I am searching for the article on Modification of the Heads (Drilling the holes) for better water passage.

I had the article but can't find it now.

Currently doing a head job and my Machine Guy is holding up until I get him the article.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

[gordonra]

Hi Dan,

I dont recall an article, but what you do:

Place the head gasket on the head and center punch the two gasket hole locations between the exhaust ports. The other two holes in the gasket are between the intake ports, but you leave those alone.

Use a 1/4" drill to make extra cooling holes where you center punched taking care to angle the hole toward the cooling passage slightly. You should only need to drill about 1/4" to get to the cooling passage. If you need to go further than that you may need to angle the drill a little more, but shouldn't be more than 5 degrees.

Do this on both heads and you're done.

Rich

 

[DanR]

Thanks Rich for the help....

The reason I was asking for the Article is I have the first two pages of the Head Mod for water. There are no ID for who, whom, where, or when it was written.

It appears to be a well written set of instructions.

 

[gordonra]

Here is a site that discusses it:

http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1099568-2-8-liter-head-modification-for-cooling.html

This is an article, but it talks about doing all four holes. Title is 28Head~
http://www.bobcat.ca/stuff/index.php?dir=DOCS/

 

[DanR]

Not the article I was looking for... But helps greatly.

Seems there is a difference of opinions by some writers on the 2 holes vs the 4 holes.

Definitely will study this ....

Thanks again for our kind assistance,

 

[Series6]

It's didcussed in detail in the Sven Pruett book.

 

[DanR]

Series6, Do you have the Sven Pruett book. Could you provide the details of the discussion?

Perhaps a portion of it such as the third page?

Thanks, DanR

 

[Series6]

The book is in Phoenix. I'm in Washington. I plan to be home again in January.
Might be awhile.

Series6, Do you have the Sven Pruett book. Could you provide the details of the discussion?

Perhaps a portion of it such as the third page?

Thanks, DanR

 

[jimfai]

cooling

i have a nice used copy of sven's book for sale