Automatic Alpine

[lord_rootes]

Hi all,
I've been a member for a number of years, don't post too much but check in every day to see what's going on.
I used to own a Series II and have just purchased a Series IV automatic and was wondering if there are many others on the forum who also have the BW35 equipped version.
I bought this car recently from an estate and I am currently deciding whether I want to restore it. The car has a very solid body and aside from one repaint is in totally original condition (aside from a Weber carb). The paint job itself is a good 20 footer, lots of chips and runs etc. and obviously not all the trim was taken off when it was done so the car will need to be stripped and repainted. Being a small car and the fact that the trunk and engine bay are original colour and don't need doing would make it a fairly reasonable job I think. I've gone over it with a magnet and it seems really solid, the only signs of bondo being the tops of both fenders near the windscreen and a bit under the back bumper.
The other problem is the engine. Compression is as follows: 145, 100, 100, 124. There is oil getting up into the air cleaner. A friend is coming over and we are going to do a leak down test to determine where the problem lies but I'm pretty sure it will be a moot point as I will want to rebuild the engine if I keep the car.
I probably paid too much for this car but I do really like it and the reasons I purchased it was that I knew the owner (I bought it off of his estate) and the thought of an automatic Alpine intrigued me (I also owned an Easidrive equipped Minx for a few years).
Anyhow, I know that if I do embark on a restoration it's going to cost way more than the car is worth (been there already with my Sunbeam Rapier resto!). I've got one friend who's telling me to forget that I probably paid too much, that money is gone whether I sell it on or restore it. His reasoning is that I like the car just not the condition it's in and that it would be a good project. My other friend says cut your losses and sell it. I alternate daily on which way to go.
Anyhow I know you guys can't help me make that decision and I've probably rambled on a bit too long and if you've got this far thanks for listening.
So I'll end with my original question. How many folks on the forum have the automatic and what are their impressions of it. I've only done a bit of driving with it as it's not registered in Canada yet but my impression is that it's a little slow on take up but once you shift up into intermediate it goes pretty well (even better with a rebuilt engine I would think).
Thanks,
Alan

 

[Greggers]

I don't own nor have I ever driven an automatic Sunbeam, so I probably should just keep my thoughts to myself. That said, I rarely keep my thoughts to myself.

It seems to me that it doesn't really matter how much you paid for something until you go to sell it. If you don't intend to sell it, it doesn't matter. And the situation sounds like you paid a little extra in sentimental value. I've always been fond of the statement, "It doesn't matter what you got into a car, what really matters is what you got out of it." So ultimately, the price tag is irrelevant.

And with that said, your options are the usual options:

• 1725 Swap – What you've got, only marginally peppier
• Stock Rebuild – What you've got, only marginally peppier
• Chevy Rod Mod Rebuild – A little extra horsepower to move the sluggish automatic around
• Jose's kit, Dan R's trans crossmember for BW35 cars – The benefits of which have been well documented

The question ultimately lies in what you want to get out of it rather than what you want to $get out of it$. And if that's fun, it's just down to whether you want to spend $1,000, $2,500, $3,000 or $5,000 getting there (plus paint and incidentals).

 

[RootesRacer]

Oil will get into the air cleaner if you have PCV.
Not necessarily an indicator for a worn engine.

Check and clean out the flame trap, even then some vapor will get through.


When checking compression, always make sure the throttle is wide open.
You can get inconsistent and low readings if not.

 

[lord_rootes]

I don't own nor have I ever driven an automatic Sunbeam, so I probably should just keep my thoughts to myself. That said, I rarely keep my thoughts to myself.

It seems to me that it doesn't really matter how much you paid for something until you go to sell it. If you don't intend to sell it, it doesn't matter. And the situation sounds like you paid a little extra in sentimental value. I've always been fond of the statement, "It doesn't matter what you got into a car, what really matters is what you got out of it." So ultimately, the price tag is irrelevant.

And with that said, your options are the usual options:

• 1725 Swap – What you've got, only marginally peppier
• Stock Rebuild – What you've got, only marginally peppier
• Chevy Rod Mod Rebuild – A little extra horsepower to move the sluggish automatic around
• Jose's kit, Dan R's trans crossmember for BW35 cars – The benefits of which have been well documented

The question ultimately lies in what you want to get out of it rather than what you want to $get out of it$. And if that's fun, it's just down to whether you want to spend $1,000, $2,500, $3,000 or $5,000 getting there (plus paint and incidentals).

Thanks Greg,
I like that quote. I think I'll steal it for future use.
In the end I'm not too bothered by how much I would have to put into the car to get it to the standard I would want. I just haven't decided yet if I really want to do it. Like I said I was attracted to the automatic but that was when I thought all the car really needed was new carpets and a good clean. Of course I figured that there would be some mechanical stuff to do, there always is, but I wasn't counting on a paint job and an engine rebuild so that is why I'm pondering things for awhile. A friend of mine thinks I will succumb to creeping commitment as I do more and more jobs on the car. If that happens I know I'll probably end up taking the whole damn car apart and redoing everything.
Anyhow I was mainly interested in seeing how many members have the automatic transmission and what their impressions were.
Thanks,
Alan

 

[lord_rootes]

Oil will get into the air cleaner if you have PCV.
Not necessarily an indicator for a worn engine.

Check and clean out the flame trap, even then some vapor will get through.


When checking compression, always make sure the throttle is wide open.
You can get inconsistent and low readings if not.

Thanks RootesRacer, I will try both of your suggestions. I can't remember if I had the throttle all the way open or not. Now that you mention it I do recall doing that in the past but I don't think I remembered to do it this time. I will try again before we do the leak down test and see if it makes a difference.
Thanks,
Alan

 

[Series3Scott]

I've driven an automatic and found it sluggish. However, once up to speed it handled like any other Alpine. With only two available speeds I found it strange and wondered what Rootes were thinking with this concept. Still, there's not many of them left - they're getting rare. Is yours a GT?

 

[pcmenten]

Alan, I don't think fixing the paint will be a bad job at all, although it will depend upon your standards of quality. I have to fight the tendency to keep adding a little extra every time I touch the car and, instead, just do the important but basic job of fixing what's broke.

Regarding the engine; you don't know anything more than you have variable compression. I'd suggest you pull the head to check the condition of the valves, and inspect the camshaft to see if you've got flat lobes. Modern motor oil does not have the right lubricants for flat-tappet cams, and people are losing engines without knowing it's the cam that's bad.

Good luck.

Paul

 

[lord_rootes]

I've driven an automatic and found it sluggish. However, once up to speed it handled like any other Alpine. With only two available speeds I found it strange and wondered what Rootes were thinking with this concept. Still, there's not many of them left - they're getting rare. Is yours a GT?

Hi Scott,
No mine is a soft top version although it does sport an aftermarket hard top.
When you look at the old road tests on them they actually don't seem all that much slower.

 

[lord_rootes]

Alan, I don't think fixing the paint will be a bad job at all, although it will depend upon your standards of quality. I have to fight the tendency to keep adding a little extra every time I touch the car and, instead, just do the important but basic job of fixing what's broke.

Regarding the engine; you don't know anything more than you have variable compression. I'd suggest you pull the head to check the condition of the valves, and inspect the camshaft to see if you've got flat lobes. Modern motor oil does not have the right lubricants for flat-tappet cams, and people are losing engines without knowing it's the cam that's bad.

Good luck.

Paul

Thanks Paul, that's a good suggestion. When my friend comes over to do the leak down test I think I might try to do that then. I'm not sure if I'm knowledgeable enough to detect how badly worn some of the parts might be but I know my friend probably is. If not I can always take the head and cam shaft into my local garage or some fellow car club members and get their opinion. I had thought of possible trying to rebuild the engine myself as I've never done it before and it might be fun and a good learning experience. When I say that I mean that I would take any parts that need machining to a shop but re-assemble everything myself.
Thanks again for your suggestions.

 

[DanR]

As for the areas you say that might be bondo..... is probably "lead" Rootes utilized lead in especially the places you mentioned.

I own a '65 SIV GT BW35 but am currently installing a Mustang II 2.8 V6 and T5 tranny with components I made.

Send me your E-mail and I'll send you some PIC's....

 

[Paul A]

Scott. I had a '64 automatic. I installed a 1725 engine in it and found it to be nearly as "sprightly" as my '67 with a manual tranny.

The tranny can be shifted so that you utilize all 3 gears - a great help in getting around the sluggish feeling.

 

[lord_rootes]

As for the areas you say that might be bondo..... is probably "lead" Rootes utilized lead in especially the places you mentioned.

I own a '65 SIV GT BW35 but am currently installing a Mustang II 2.8 V6 and T5 tranny with components I made.

Send me your E-mail and I'll send you some PIC's....

Thanks Dan, that's interesting. Hopefully that's what it is.

 

[lord_rootes]

Scott. I had a '64 automatic. I installed a 1725 engine in it and found it to be nearly as "sprightly" as my '67 with a manual tranny.

The tranny can be shifted so that you utilize all 3 gears - a great help in getting around the sluggisg feel.

It's funny you should mention that Paul as I was thinking about possibly installing a 1725 and was wondering how much difference it would make. I put a 1725 in my Rapier and was very impressed with the improvement over the old 1592 although the old motor was probably a little clapped out.

 

[65sunbeam]

A friend of mine just bought a S4 automatic Alpine from a long time owner and I got to drive it-the first auto Sunbeam I have ever driven. Very nice car to drive with plenty of power! I was surprised at how well that transmission works in the Alpine. This car will be driven by his 91 year old mother-some of you in the SE may remember her as she used to drive her Tiger to various shows.
She hurt her wrist and can't shift gears any more so this auto Alpine makes her happy! Eric

 

[lord_rootes]

A friend of mine just bought a S4 automatic Alpine from a long time owner and I got to drive it-the first auto Sunbeam I have ever driven. Very nice car to drive with plenty of power! I was surprised at how well that transmission works in the Alpine. This car will be driven by his 91 year old mother-some of you in the SE may remember her as she used to drive her Tiger to various shows.
She hurt her wrist and can't shift gears any more so this auto Alpine makes her happy! Eric

That's nice to hear. Today I'm leaning toward keeping the car ( it varies day to day) but I know if I do I'll probably have to go whole hog and restore the darn thing to a fairly high standard which will eat up some funds that I'll never get back. But heck, as was said earlier, it's not what you put into a car that counts but what you get out of it.
Once I get the car registered in BC I'll be able to take it for a better run and assess whether I'm going to like it or not.
Thanks

 

[tony perrett]

Having only 3 gears it is obvious when the changes are made, unlike modern automatics. There is a lock-up facility on the gear stick and an efficient kick-down for overtaking - in short, the BW35 is a good robust gearbox.

 

[Buckeye64]

I have a SIV with the auto trans, bought it from the original owner with 32K on it. Blinding speed it does not have but it pulls the Alpine around to make the drive a pleasant one. The one problem you will find is if you do not drive it on a regular basis it will leak trans fluid. But what Alpine doesn't leak some type of fluid.

 

[lord_rootes]

I have a SIV with the auto trans, bought it from the original owner with 32K on it. Blinding speed it does not have but it pulls the Alpine around to make the drive a pleasant one. The one problem you will find is if you do not drive it on a regular basis it will leak trans fluid. But what Alpine doesn't leak some type of fluid.

Thanks Buckeye64. From what I've read the acceleration isn't that bad after it shifts up into 2nd gear (pretty close to a manual). I haven't been able to give it a good run yet and the car is probably not running as well as it could but I thought it handled itself quite well in city traffic. I know as far as highway driving it should be the same as a non overdrive manual.
I did notice the transmission is covered in oil, wasn't sure if it was blowback from the engine or the transmission itself (probably both). The transmission was down about a 1/4 litre when I got it. I found the dipstick a little hard to read though. A friend of mine had a BW35 and he found the same thing.
Thanks for your comments. It's nice to hear from another automatic owner. I can't imagine there are too many of them around.

 

[lord_rootes]

Well folks, the saga continues and just took a rather surreal turn.
As I mentioned, I sold my Series II three years ago. The car itself was in fairly good driver quality condition but it did have a really good engine in it that I had rebuilt by a local very reputable shop (same one that rebuilt my 1725 Rapier engine as well as engines for several of my friends).The engine rebuild cost close to $5,000.00 and I sold the car for $8,000.00 which was a very good price at the time for the condition of the car. I always felt I might have been smarter to pull the engine as it only had two or three thousand miles on it and sell the car with another old engine I had as a project car.
So, I get a call the other day from a fellow asking me if I used to own a black Sunbeam Alpine. Turns out he bought the car as a salvage vehicle (it was in an accident and written off) and had found some documentation in it leading him to me. Long story short I have agreed to buy the engine and auxiliaries from him for $2,200.00. It has had about 13,000 miles put on it since I sold it bringing the total mileage after rebuild to about 16,000 at most. As I have decided to go ahead and restore my Series IV automatic and was looking at another engine rebuild I must say that I am very happy (probably saved me $3,000 or more plus I get an engine that I know was done properly). The fellow who rebuilt my old engine was very fussy and he managed to get some extra power out of it with a mildly aggressive cam grind so it really went well.
Anyhow, thought I'd share that news.
Thanks.

 

[mike-down-under]

I'm an auto owner too

Hi
I'm an auto owner too. But mine isn't stock. It has a later Asin Warner auto (BW 35 copy) with overdrive, lock up torque converter and the auto has been tidied up for snappier shifts. It does highway speed at a low pulse and catches many modern cars off guard at the lights. Don't underestimate the auto!

Mike