Alpine four valves

[Jim E]

Guess this could go in stock or mod depends how you look at it. Anyway being real short on used valves and not trusting the aftermarket pieces am thinking to contact Manley or some such valve maker and seeing about having a run of valves done in stainless. My thought is to have them done to carry the stock keepers and retainer but with an 8 mm stem in the guide area and under cut behind the head. Then also make them a bit bigger head depending on what I figure the stock seats will cut to. My thought are with the 8mm stem we can ream the stock guide to run the 8mm stem and avoid guide replacment or and this is what we should really do is find an 8 mm bronze guide. Every head I take apart has worn guides even ones I have replaced the giudes in, not sure this is due to valve stem wear or poor made guides. Just opened up a true 14k original mile head and guess what, the guides are shot so maybe it is just crap guides. Not sure what teh cost on these valves would be but am about to find out. Thought about teh datsun valve but some folks do not want to go as deep in the pockets as that requires and it would just be nice to have a real quality valve that pretty much fits a stock head.

Thoughts?

 

[RootesRacer]

Valves cost me a lot of coin when I did them.

I used ferrea stainless for a "Z" car, which IIRC is the same as a 510 with 2 extra cyls.

They needed the heads cut down and re-profiled, I ended up with 1.400 exh and 1.600 intake.

These valves were real nice becuase they under cut the stems near the tulips for extra flow.

Z/510 valves are also about .050 longer than stock valves so the geometry needs modified, or somehow the stems need shortened.

Another REALLY nice thing to offer would be compatible titanium retainers and matching locks. The stock retainers are SO heavy, the mass of the retainer makes a big difference as compared to the springs (since only half the spring is sprung mass).

 

[Jim E]

When I did the Datsun valve head I used datsun springs and Toyota retainers with Datsun locks. I am almost certain you can get Titanium Datsun and Toy pieces. The problem with the Datsun route is money, paying for all the custom machine work gets pricey think I had about $700 in machine work not counting parts. I am shooting to get a good quality valve that we might find an off the shelf bronze guide for, which is why I am thinking 8 mm stem then to do the 8mm stem and run the stock retainer and locks will require one more bit of machine work on the valve to reduce the diameter at that point to stock spec. and be able to pretty much use it like a stock valve. The Datsun valve will most likley come back into this being the most likley valve that a supplier would have as a "blank to make the Alpine valve from being it is pretty close to what we would require. In the back of my mind I see this costing more money that most folks will want to pay for valves but I could be wrong and hope I am.

 

[Jim E]

Ordered two Nissan SS under cut valve blanks, not the straight six version but the v6 and we are going to see what it will take to fit them, if it will work then I see what it will cost to get a run of valves done. I have found an off the shelf bronze guide that fits the head and will work with the 8 mm nissan valve stem at least the numbers say it will.

While sitting around talking this over the two engine builders there said the main reason we are eatting guides is no stem seal and we are getting carbon up the guide that is acting like sand paper wearing the guides out. It was suggested we machine the tops of the guides to fit a quality stem seal. Not sure we can find a stem seal to fit the stock valve stem size, can get close but not on the money fit anyway.

By the way the blanks are pretty cheap to buy but figure the machine work is going to run the per valve cost up a bit, especially for one off sets may be better if I do a batch from the one of the makers and not custom machine work local. Not to mention I do not think the guy will do 10 sets at one time

 

[RootesRacer]

The stock guides can be machined on the head to allow an off the shelf seal to be fitted. I am not sure though that a seal alone will solve keeping the carbon out, plus the cast iron material is rather soft. Silicon Bronze is the way to go.


BTW, I am about to pull the trigger on a mill/lathe combo.

Something like that would prolly be pretty good at making something simple like guides.

Not sure about the valves, might be too hard for lathe work.

 

[sunbeam74]

Jim,

You should be able to find a good seal to fit the top of the guide.

I cut the bottoms off my retainers (easy enough to do myself - to save weight - ok, I'm cheap) and have the shop use a seal. I don't know which one he uses... I will have to ask.

Originally the SCF Alpine had perfect circle seals.

Steve

 

[Jim E]

Jarrid what do you think about a modern iron guide? I am with you on the seal not helping a lot but figure it could not hurt.

Provided I can pull this all together am looking at doing one or two heads and would like to get them on a car for a while to see how they stand up. Would need someone who will either put a bunch of miles on a car in a short time or run the snot out of one, like for a race season and then send the head back so I can see how they wear. Actually figure the wear cannot be as bad as stock, but am a little worried about failure.

Fitting a seal the problem is getting one the fits the stem, machining the top of the guide to fit the seal is no problem. Leaning toward the problem is mostly the stock guides are junk