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Adding an OD to my series I

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by clhiller, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. clhiller

    clhiller Silver Level Sponsor

    3C1F0E1B-B466-4539-AC9A-E3D5CAA16F29.jpeg 2D0163A6-3A44-4936-98E5-50DF62E1DFB3.jpeg
    I’m ready to get organized to install my engine/transmission. The transmission that was in the car was a nine OD unit. The rebuilt OD transmission is a non synchro unit. There is wiring and a switch and light already installed in the car, so there must have been an OD transmission installed at one point. What I’m wondering is if this is a self cancelling setup. Here is a picture of the relay. ( Which is mounted under the dash)
    The yellow wires come from the switch which is mounted on the steering column, and blu and white wires go to the transmission.
     
  2. clhiller

    clhiller Silver Level Sponsor

    I believe that the relay is a 6RA
     
  3. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    There are many 6ra relays, what is the code on it..a. Series of numbers. Do you have 7 spade connectors in that photo?
     
  4. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    The fact that it has a terminal labelled C4 tells you that it is probably the relay for the Self Cancelling arrangement, as used on Series 3-5 . Looking at the photo I can't quite make out the number stamped on the case, but it does not seem to have the same number that I am familiar with, which is 33199, which puzzles me and suggests it might be something else. This is not an original wiring or location for the relay, so it is difficult to say of it is wired correctly. One clue is whether terminal C4 is connected to terminal W2, via a jumper wire. The correct wiring is shown in Fig 4B on page E5 in WSM 145 which you can find here:
    http://wavelen.com/wiki/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=sunbeam:wsm145_rootes_light_car_range_1725cc.pdf

    Tom
     
  5. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Platinum Level Sponsor

    Looking at your photo it looks like there is a date code of 12/08 on the relay.
     
  6. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Near as I can see, it looks like a Lucas 6RA type, numbered 33333B. A quick google search says that it's from a Jaguar,Triumph, or MG . I can't find what function it provided, so it may or may not be the same as a the Alpine OD relay. I suspect it is not and most likely the C4 terminal is a Normally Closed contact and NOT the extra Normally Open contact required for the self cancelling circuit. I suspect the PO installed this thinking it was the same as the correct OD relay and found it did not work. If it were the same as the Alpine OD relay, it seems Lucas would have used the same number, changing only the letter suffix for any minor changes. On the other hand, it seems that on a Lucas relay if the extra terminal is just a Normally Closed contact, it's labeled C3 and not C4. Maybe someone has access to an old Lucas catalog and can ID exactly what this relay is.

    But if it's not the correct relay or simply in doubt you can replace it with an "ordinary" relay you can buy at any parts store and add a few components and make it work like the original circuit. see this:
    http://mhartman.net/files/sunbeam/Overdrive Relay Replacement V1-0.pdf

    One key question, Is the column switch a two position , center off switch. i.e. it normally sits in middle position and can be moved momentarily Up oor Down? That's the kind of switch required. Earlier ones were simply ON or OFF.

    Tom
     
  7. clhiller

    clhiller Silver Level Sponsor

    The switch on the steering column clicks down and then returns to centre when released. This car was not an original OD car. A PO installed this wiring. I don’t know if he ever had it working or not as when I bought the car it had a non-OD tranny in it, but it came with a rebuilt OD tranny. I will trace all the wiring and compare it to the diagram Tom referenced. I included some better pictures and C4 and W2 are connected via a jumper. The blue and white wires that go to the right go into the engine bay where they are currently coiled up and out of the way. They will be long enough to reach the transmission when installed. The blue wire that goes to the left goes to the OD light in the dash. The yellow and yellow/green wires that go to the left come from the steering column. And the white wire is the C4/W2 jumper. 9939362A-7740-4F50-898D-B979395CEAE6.jpeg 2DDE6F82-E18F-4036-BABB-834B05581E98.jpeg
     
  8. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    You say the switch goes Down and then returns when released. Does it also go UP and return when released?

    Tom
     
  9. clhiller

    clhiller Silver Level Sponsor

    I think so.
     
  10. clhiller

    clhiller Silver Level Sponsor

    Yes it does.
     
  11. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    You still need to find out what that 33333B relay is. In your photos I do not see any soldered tab on either end. On the correct relay, 33199, there is visible on the edge of the outer housing, at one end, where the internal resistor is soldered to the case to make the ground connection. So I am 90% sure this relay is NOT identical to the relay used in the self cancelling circuit.
     
  12. clhiller

    clhiller Silver Level Sponsor

    Ok. I’ll check it closer. I’ll probably go ahead with the install and check the operation of the relay once everything is hooked up. If it doesn’t work then I’ll look at getting a different relay. Thanks for the input.
     
  13. volvoguys

    volvoguys Donation Time

    Since the Lucas 33199 relay is obsolete and very hard to find, Jerome Senn (UK) has produced a single-piece 6RA-type relay that works with the self cancelling overdrives: Click the link:

    http://alpineinnovations.co.uk/products/

    Mark .…. volvoguys
     
  14. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    I am almost 100% sure that the relay you have will NOT work, and could possible cause a short, which could damage your column switch. If you do not see any solder tab along the bottom edge of the housing then I am 100% sure. You have 4 possible solutions:

    1) find a 6RA relay marked 33199 - that's the original late series relay - not likely to find one.
    2)Find a common 6RA relay with just 4 contacts labeled C1, C2, W1, W2 and add the components described in the article I linked
    3) buy a $5 modern, common relay at a NAPA or local auto store and add the components I show in the article I linked. It will not look like an original relay, but you have it hidden out of sight anyhow
    4) buy the relay linked by Mark above. It's the same concept as described in my article , but has the added components installed inside the original style housing.

    Tom
     
  15. clhiller

    clhiller Silver Level Sponsor

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