67 Alpine problems

[Steelerfan]

I just purchased a 67 Alpine, and I'm having some issues. Apparently the guy who restored it bypassed the brake "booster." I'm no mechanic, but I'd like to know how hard a fix it is, and if it's expensive to have done. I'm also having problems with the driver's seat. It reclined all on it's own while I was driving it....surprise. The lever beside the seat seems to be frozen, and I can't adjust it back up. Any tips, suggestions, etc. I'm 25 mi north of Pittsburgh in Cranberry, Pa. Can anyone recommend or know of a mechanic in the area who may be able to help? Thanks for the help. Diane

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Diane,

I can´t help you with the seat problem, but the brake issue is easier. The boosted cars used a larger bore master cylinder, and when the booster goes, it leaves you with a cvar that is hard to stop. The easiest fix that most guys use, is to put a master cylinder from an earlier Series Alpine that didn´t come with a booster. It has a smaller bore and will give you more pressure per inch of travel. Some say that it makes the Alpine stop even better than with a booster.

Jose

I just purchased a 67 Alpine, and I'm having some issues. Apparently the guy who restored it bypassed the brake "booster." I'm no mechanic, but I'd like to know how hard a fix it is, and if it's expensive to have done. I'm also having problems with the driver's seat. It reclined all on it's own while I was driving it....surprise. The lever beside the seat seems to be frozen, and I can't adjust it back up. Any tips, suggestions, etc. I'm 25 mi north of Pittsburgh in Cranberry, Pa. Can anyone recommend or know of a mechanic in the area who may be able to help? Thanks for the help. Diane

 

[George Coleman]

Remove the booster and bypass it. Then get a brake master for SI or SII Alpine this will work just as well as having a booster. I use one on my SV Alpine and I had one on my 65 Tiger as well. Good luck

 

[jumpinjan]

Well, the early M/C won't stop as well as a good functioning B-booster. I could lock the front wheels in a panic stop in my SV w/booster. I thought wow, the booster really does adds a lot to the braking.
Jan

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Jan,

Locking up the front wheels isn´t necessarilya good way to asses the brakes. How does the brake modulate in less than panic stops. A smaller bore gives the brakes a mechanical advantage, if you aren´t going to use the booster. Rebuilding the booster can cost quite a bit, and I even had trouble from a rebuilt booster.

I told Diane that the easiest cure for no booster, was using an early master cylinder, and I still think it is the cheapest and best way to get better brakes.

Jose

 

[Tom H]

Hi Diane,

If you prefer the original system with booster, like I and many others do, I recommend you hav eteh booster rebuilt by White Post:

http://www.whitepost.com/brake.html

I think it will cost about $500. From their website you can request a quote.

Tom Hayden (a Browns fan, but willing to help a Steeler fan)

 

[DanR]

Might just be wrong, But....

During a recent British Car Show in SC I saw a Tiger with a "New" Booster (not original) that might have only cost a couple hundred dollars.

Can't remember the name but I believe the car was a red one! Perhaps someone here can tune in with more info.

A new one around that $$ amount sure sounds better than $500 plus shipping two ways??

I'll start digging thru some of my stuff to see if I can find anything,

 

[Tom H]

A replacement, non-original-style booster is available from Sunbeam Specialties for about $300, but it requires you build a custom mount. The White Post rebuild was $470 plus $20 shipping, plus about $20 to ship it to them.

Tom

 

[alpine_64]

The pbr vh44 boosters can be used as a replacement and offer better oedal feel and reliability than the Lockheed and girling units.. Not original but effective.

 

[George Coleman]

The White Post rebuild will be a quality build and will work better than when it was new, still a little$$$ if you need to have the booster.

 

[DanR]

Diy....

If you will venture into a DIY, I have some instructions....
Servo Unit Rebuild Instructions dtd March 30, 2009 by by Tom Ehrhart
Rebuilding the Girling servo that I will be glad to forward (E-mail) if interested. I found them very helpful,

DanR

 

[Steelerfan]

Wow, thanks everybody! Like I said, I'm no mechanic and don't think dyi will work for me. If I can't find a local mechanic (read someone who will work on their own time), I'll probably have to take it to a garage. We have 2 locally, so I have some options. Btw, issue with seat back has been resolved, so I got to drive her yesterday for the first time since trailering her home from Va on Monday.

I believe the closest chapter is southwest Ohio, but if you know of anyone in the Pittsburgh area who may be able to help, I welcome any recommendation. So glad to have found you guys! Not sure how to post a pic, but when I figure it out, I'll put her picture up.

And if you're a Browns fan, sunbeam owner trumps everything!!

 

[Steelerfan]

Tell me if this is normal... My driveway is sloped back, not real steep
, but a definite incline. While backing her out of the garage in reverse, and attempting to stop, clutch in, I have the brake pedal to the floor, and she keeps rolling. I have to use the hand brake to stop. I'm assuming this is not normal and I definitely need the booster.

 

[RootesRacer]

Tell me if this is normal... My driveway is sloped back, not real steep
, but a definite incline. While backing her out of the garage in reverse, and attempting to stop, clutch in, I have the brake pedal to the floor, and she keeps rolling. I have to use the hand brake to stop. I'm assuming this is not normal and I definitely need the booster.

If you are to the floor and the booster is bypassed then most likely you need to bleed your brakes.

 

[hartmandm]

With the car off, the brake pedal should get rock hard after a short amount of travel. About 2 inches on my series V with a booster.

Mike

 

[Tom H]

Diane, Just to clarify RootesRacer's comment, your foot going to the floor is a serious issue and is independent of the booster being in or not. Without the booster it will take about 30% more foot pressure to stop the car than it would with the booster. But regardless of booster or not, your foot should always get resistance and stop the car before the pedal goes to the floor. That foot-to- the-floor condition indicates that there is air in the brake lines. If the previous owner only recently bypassed the booster, it seems pretty likely that air got in during that process. Regardless of how the air got in, you'll need to bleed the brake system. Do you know what kind of brake fluid the previous owner has put into the brakes (and Clutch hydraulics), If not you should contact him and find out.

Tom (and yes, Sunbeam owner trumps everything)

 

[Barry]

This thread would probably get a lot more attention in the Stock Alpine forum where it logically belongs.

 

[Alpine 1789]

Diane: just to add a bit to what Tom wrote, bleeding the brakes is very simple and takes very little mechanical ability or experience. It just takes one patient friend to help.

First, make sure there is fluid in the reservoir. Alpines are very sensitive to brake fluid type, which is why Tom wanted you to check to see what kind was in there. The recommended type/brand is Girling, which is still available at many auto parts stores. However, if the previous owner put something different in, then it would be good to find out first. If that isn't possible, I am sure people here can guide you through your options better than I can.

If there is fluid in the reservoir, then Tom is hopefully correct about how the air got into the system. Getting the air out is as simple as having one of you pump the brake pedal until you get pressure (if you don't get pressure and there is fluid in the reservoir, then other work will be needed) and then holding down the pedal while the other person opens up the bleed nipple on the right rear drum brake. (The workshop manual, which can be found here,http://www.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?categoryid=89, will show you where everything is.) You don't want to just let the fluid run into the ground, as it is toxic and also a pretty effective paint remover, so you need to run a vinyl tube from the bleed nipple to a jar. The pedal will go soft as soon as you open the nipple, but the "driver" needs to keep his/her foot on the pedal until the bleed screw is closed. The process is repeated until there is no more air coming out of the system and then moved to the right front disk brake and then the left front. As long as you remember to keep the fluid topped up (letting it run out lets air back in, but just requires you to start over) it is really simple and only takes a few minutes. Be careful not to over tighten the bleed screws, especially in the back, and you are good to go! Or, more accurately, to stop.

Now, if it loses pressure again and the pedal feels spongy again after that, it means that air is getting into the system from a leak somewhere and that needs to be fixed immediately, least you lose the brakes when you most need them.

 

[sunbby]

This thread would probably get a lot more attention in the Stock Alpine forum where it logically belongs.

Yes it might fight better in the Stock section, but I think the attention would be the same, do people really only look at certain sub forums? I always just check the new posts which show all forums.

Anyway, I suggested Diane post in the Modified section because I was thinking at the time her booster was bypassed and maybe she'd need a different master cylinder, etc. Maybe that should take it from Factory to Stock instead, but you can blame me for it.

In any case let's try to help her out. If someone is in the area or knows a decent mechanic sounds like she could use the advice. Or maybe give her enough info to talk intelligently to any mechanic she might hire.


As to the long pedal travel, there is another possibility, if the rear shoes are drastically out of adjustment it can take a ton of pedal travel to take up the play. Diane, if you pump the brakes, press the pedal down and up a few times quickly, does it still go to the floor? Also you can try applying the park brake, then try the brake pedal, does it get any better then?

 

[Steelerfan]

I guess I made a mistake in saying the brake pedal went to the floor. What I actually meant is that I've got it pressed in as far as it will possibly go....but it doesn't go to the floor.

On a brighter note, I took her out for a spin today and I love it. She's got some issues, but for now she's roadworthy.