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3rd gear whine on 1974 Cologne 2.8 V6 standard 4-speed transmission

limey222

Donation Time
I took my car out tonight for a spin and noticed for the first time that I have a whine in 3rd gear on my stock Ford 4-speed manual transmission. Its not really loud but it has me a little worried ....should I be? Are older Ford gearboxes inherently noisy?
I've been progressively driving the car harder as I get more confident in its mechanical condition. I have wound it up to 5K through the gears occasionally, can it take it?
 
Last edited:

RootesRacer

Donation Time
The 4 speed is generally regarded a decent transmission for the stock 2.8.
It is a slightly repackaged version of the venerable pinto/cortina 4 speed, but with a side loading gearset instead of the toploading internal rail shifter.

It doesnt have a large amount of power handling potential and if abused, they can spit a tooth on a power shift, which can grenade the trans (happened to me once).

If its noisy on a single gear, most likely that gear has faced some damage.
You might see if moving the gear selector around changes the noise, if so the external shift linkage may be improperly adjusted.
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Jarid,

the Mustang II four speed isn´t the SROD, it looks almost like the T5, except is is just a bit smaller in size. It does have the single rail shifter like the T5 does. It is plenty strong, but the ratios are a bit off. First gear is pretty low and has a big jump into second. It is why I don´t recommend using it, along with no overdrive and the shifter sits all the way at the end of the tail housing, which puts the shifter a bit too far back to be able to shift it comfortably.

Jose


The 4 speed is generally regarded a decent transmission for the stock 2.8.
It is a slightly repackaged version of the venerable pinto/cortina 4 speed, but with a side loading gearset instead of the toploading internal rail shifter.

It doesnt have a large amount of power handling potential and if abused, they can spit a tooth on a power shift, which can grenade the trans (happened to me once).

If its noisy on a single gear, most likely that gear has faced some damage.
You might see if moving the gear selector around changes the noise, if so the external shift linkage may be improperly adjusted.
 

RootesRacer

Donation Time
No one was talking about the Mutt II 4 speed.

He says he has a cologne capri trans, I know a bit about these.

It was derived from the cortina single rail 4 speed that was used in Cortinas and Pintos in the late 60s and 70s.

The Mutt II trans is also a single rail 4 speed, but it was based off the T10 top loader and in no way was related to either the capri or the pinto trans.
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
He must have mentioned that it was a Capri transmission in another post, because I don´t see it in this post.

Jose
 

limey222

Donation Time
3rd gear whine

Sorry if I didn't make it clear that this is out of a German-produced Capri, marketed over here in 74 as the Mercury Capri. According to my Hayes manual the Mustang II used the same 2.8 V6 but I don't know if the gearbox was the same.
The gearbox isn't of a selector slide rail design which I believe is known as Type E, instead it uses a side-addressed rod and lever selector and is know as a Type H.
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Limey,

How does it shift? Most of these transmissions have worn out grommets on the shifting arms, which can make it hard shifting. The Capri transmission isn´t that strong either. I would suggest swiching to a T5 when you can. you´ll really enjoy your 2.8 V6more after you get a slick shifting T5 in there,notto mention having a fifth gear overdrive.

Jose


Sorry if I didn't make it clear that this is out of a German-produced Capri, marketed over here in 74 as the Mercury Capri. According to my Hayes manual the Mustang II used the same 2.8 V6 but I don't know if the gearbox was the same.
The gearbox isn't of a selector slide rail design which I believe is known as Type E, instead it uses a side-addressed rod and lever selector and is know as a Type H.
 

limey222

Donation Time
T5

Jose,

I'm having a problem getting exact instructions on what I need to source to do a T5 conversion, can you ell?

Hi Limey,

How does it shift? Most of these transmissions have worn out grommets on the shifting arms, which can make it hard shifting. The Capri transmission isn´t that strong either. I would suggest swiching to a T5 when you can. you´ll really enjoy your 2.8 V6more after you get a slick shifting T5 in there,notto mention having a fifth gear overdrive.

Jose
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Limey,

You´ll need a Mustang II bellhousing (I have a source for one if you can´t find one easily.) and a T5 transmission since you already have the flywheel and clutch. You will also need to modify your driveshaft to fit the T5 with a front yoke that fits the T5. You will need a slave cylinder mounting bracket to mount the external slave cylinder we are using. You will need to use a pilot bearing adapter (I have someone who can make one for you, and it comes with a new pilot bearing) if you use one of the early versions of the T5 (years 1986-1979). I Personally recommend using the transmission from behind the 5.0 V8 Mustang of one of those years, because it has a better set of gear ratios for the V6, that will gve it better performance all around.

The only other thing you´ll need to do to get the T5 to fit the Mustang II bellhousing, is you´ll need to remove the front collar of the transmission, and have the O.D. turned down in size to fit the hole in the bellhousing. Give yourself between .0020" to .0025" clearance, so it will slip in easily. be careful as you remove the front collar, so you don´t lose one of the rollers from the front bearing, into the transmission case. The best way to avoid this is to have the transmission slightly nose down when you remove the collar. To mount it again, use a little light grease to hold the rollers in place as you reassemble it.

To hook up the speedometer, just measure how much of your old cable you will need (make sure you have enough so you don´t kink it when you hook it up). After you have the length you´ll need, take it to a speedometer shop and have them cut it to length and put a Ford end on it (the part that slips into the transmission). Go to a Ford dealer and get a 21 tooth gear to put on it and then install it. With the 21 tooth gear you will get to where it reads about 10 persent fast, which is better than 10 percent slow, because it will help you keep from speeding. To get it to read accurately, you will need to have a gear reduction box, which can set you back about $200, but isn´t absolutely necessary.

With these few things, you will really enjoy driving your V6. It will shift easily and smoothly. I almost forgot. I recommend getting an after market shifter, like Pro 5.0, Holley or other good shifter. The main reason I recommend using one, is that the stock shifter isn´t as accurate in shifting, and it doesn´t have shift stops. You need shift stops so you don´t over shift the transmission while driving enthusiastically. If you won´t be driving with verve, you won´t necessarily need one, unless you want the smoothness it can afford.

All in all, I think the T5 will last longer, shift better and give better service.

Jose







Jose,

I'm having a problem getting exact instructions on what I need to source to do a T5 conversion, can you ell?
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Can you provide the numbers on your bell housing?

Limey, If you can get to the numbers on your bell housing it will be of benefit as to identity of what you now have and what can be bolted up.

Identify first what you have.

PIC's will also let the Forum guys give better advice,
 

limey222

Donation Time
T5 conversion possiblity

can you tell me where the numbering might be located on the bell housing? Its all pretty tight in there.
 

limey222

Donation Time
T5 conversion possiblity

Hi Jose
thanks for all the information.

I just noticed these items for sale here in Portland, rae they of any use to me in doing this T5 conversion?
http://portland.craigslist.org/wsc/pts/4622758826.html
V6 Also locally this guy is offering this T5: [url said:
http://portland.craigslist.org/clk/pts/4627136213.html[/url]

I don't need to worry about the speedo connections I am using a GPS speedo.





JOSE;150390]Hi Limey,

You´ll need a Mustang II bellhousing (I have a source for one if you can´t find one easily.) and a T5 transmission since you already have the flywheel and clutch. You will also need to modify your driveshaft to fit the T5 with a front yoke that fits the T5. You will need a slave cylinder mounting bracket to mount the external slave cylinder we are using. You will need to use a pilot bearing adapter (I have someone who can make one for you, and it comes with a new pilot bearing) if you use one of the early versions of the T5 (years 1986-1979). I Personally recommend using the transmission from behind the 5.0 V8 Mustang of one of those years, because it has a better set of gear ratios for the V6, that will gve it better performance all around.

The only other thing you´ll need to do to get the T5 to fit the Mustang II bellhousing, is you´ll need to remove the front collar of the transmission, and have the O.D. turned down in size to fit the hole in the bellhousing. Give yourself between .0020" to .0025" clearance, so it will slip in easily. be careful as you remove the front collar, so you don´t lose one of the rollers from the front bearing, into the transmission case. The best way to avoid this is to have the transmission slightly nose down when you remove the collar. To mount it again, use a little light grease to hold the rollers in place as you reassemble it.

To hook up the speedometer, just measure how much of your old cable you will need (make sure you have enough so you don´t kink it when you hook it up). After you have the length you´ll need, take it to a speedometer shop and have them cut it to length and put a Ford end on it (the part that slips into the transmission). Go to a Ford dealer and get a 21 tooth gear to put on it and then install it. With the 21 tooth gear you will get to where it reads about 10 persent fast, which is better than 10 percent slow, because it will help you keep from speeding. To get it to read accurately, you will need to have a gear reduction box, which can set you back about $200, but isn´t absolutely necessary.

With these few things, you will really enjoy driving your V6. It will shift easily and smoothly. I almost forgot. I recommend getting an after market shifter, like Pro 5.0, Holley or other good shifter. The main reason I recommend using one, is that the stock shifter isn´t as accurate in shifting, and it doesn´t have shift stops. You need shift stops so you don´t over shift the transmission while driving enthusiastically. If you won´t be driving with verve, you won´t necessarily need one, unless you want the smoothness it can afford.

All in all, I think the T5 will last longer, shift better and give better service.

Jose
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
can you tell me where the numbering might be located on the bell housing? Its all pretty tight in there.

Only way I know of getting the numbers is to have the transmission and Bell housing separated because the numbers are on the backside of the bell housing.

Tight is the understatement:D

Pictures are the next best thing.

Send me your E-mail AND I'LL SEND YOU SOME pic's OF the "correct" Bell housing.
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Limey,

Your bellhousing is a cast iron unit. The mustang II bellhousing is made of aluminum, and has the starter bump on the driver´s side. The four cylinder bellhousing loks almost identical,but has the starter bump on the passenger side, which will not work. If you are looking for one, contact Paul Almjeld on this forum. He has the correct bellhousing and will sell it to you. No need to go asking part numbers, because he has the correct one. The right one will have a steel bellcrank handle sticking straight up out of the drivers side. There is only one that looks like that.

Jose

p.s. If you want Pauls phone number, I will give it to you. Just drop me a pm and I will get it to you.


can you tell me where the numbering might be located on the bell housing? Its all pretty tight in there.
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Limey,

Your bellhousing is a cast iron unit. The mustang II bellhousing is made of aluminum, and has the starter bump on the driver´s side. The four cylinder bellhousing loks almost identical,but has the starter bump on the passenger side, which will not work. If you are looking for one, contact Paul Almjeld on this forum. He has the correct bellhousing and will sell it to you. No need to go asking part numbers, because he has the correct one. The right one will have a steel bellcrank handle sticking straight up out of the drivers side. There is only one that looks like that.

Jose

p.s. If you want Pauls phone number, I will give it to you. Just drop me a pm and I will get it to you.[/QUOTE]
 

Series6

Past President
Gold Level Sponsor
This is the correct one as seen from the engine side.
 

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MikeH

Diamond Level Sponsor
Hi Limey,

...
The only other thing you´ll need to do to get the T5 to fit the Mustang II bellhousing, is you´ll need to remove the front collar of the transmission, and have the O.D. turned down in size to fit the hole in the bellhousing. Give yourself between .0020" to .0025" clearance, so it will slip in easily. be careful as you remove the front collar, so you don´t lose one of the rollers from the front bearing, into the transmission case. The best way to avoid this is to have the transmission slightly nose down when you remove the collar. To mount it again, use a little light grease to hold the rollers in place as you reassemble it.
...

Jose

You left out turn the pilot bearing spud down on the later T5.
 

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
Hi Mike,

He´s wanting to use an arly 5.0 V8 T5, which doesn´t need to turn down the pilot bearing spud. The early T5s need a pilot bearing adapter, to accommodate the shorter input shaft of the earlier transmission.

Jose


You left out turn the pilot bearing spud down on the later T5.
 
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