I am currently the new owner of a '65 Alpine running a 2.8 litre Ford Cologne V6 running a mild cam and Holley 650. The heads have been removed due to broken retainers. I have been told these heads were never that great to begin with and should be replaced but now understand no other Ford heads will fit this block. Is that true and if so does anyone know where I could purchase a set of "loaded" heads that have been shaved with a three-angle valve job, beefier springs, retainers, ect. Any help will be much appreciated. Cheers.
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2.8 litre ford
- Thread starter brian
- Start date
RootesRacer
Donation Time
You have a Holley 650 on a 2.8?
Good luck with that
Look on ebay, you can often find rebuilt 2.8 heads, sometimes even with new castings. Based on your mods though you may want to at least get some 2.9 valves and some port work, especially if you want to take advantage of the 650 carb.
Good luck with that
Look on ebay, you can often find rebuilt 2.8 heads, sometimes even with new castings. Based on your mods though you may want to at least get some 2.9 valves and some port work, especially if you want to take advantage of the 650 carb.
Hi Brian,
Jim Ellis does porting and polishing of these heads. He also puts 2.9 V6 valves in them, to increase breathing. A good set of modified heads done this way, is the only way to reach 200+ hp. with this engine. Porting and polishing and replacing the valves with larger ones isn't cheap, but is the only way to get yourself a killer. I would suggest contacting Jim and chatting with him about what you can expect.
Are you sure that the carburetor you are using is indeed a 650 cfm? The preferred size is 390 cfm, because anything larger than that, will not carburete well. The 2.8 V6 is too small in displacement to be able to handle that large a carburetor.
Along with the modified heads, you will need a cam that will compliment them. A mild cam won't use them to their potential. You will need a dual pattern cam, to get the most efficiency from these heads.
Jose
Jim Ellis does porting and polishing of these heads. He also puts 2.9 V6 valves in them, to increase breathing. A good set of modified heads done this way, is the only way to reach 200+ hp. with this engine. Porting and polishing and replacing the valves with larger ones isn't cheap, but is the only way to get yourself a killer. I would suggest contacting Jim and chatting with him about what you can expect.
Are you sure that the carburetor you are using is indeed a 650 cfm? The preferred size is 390 cfm, because anything larger than that, will not carburete well. The 2.8 V6 is too small in displacement to be able to handle that large a carburetor.
Along with the modified heads, you will need a cam that will compliment them. A mild cam won't use them to their potential. You will need a dual pattern cam, to get the most efficiency from these heads.
Jose
Jim E
Donation Time
I am having a bit of difficultiy doing heads at the moment changed shops I use for some of the work and it did not work out well. I am extra pissed at the moment and about to go 'visit" the shop that did some work on the last batch of Alpine heads.... basically it is my fault for not checking the work closer, I guess.... until I get this straight or go back to my old supllier I cannot take on anymore head work.
On the cam the big grind Jose sugest is the ticket IMO, I think the bigger valves and post work really pays off also. My 2.8 has all that and a bit more and the dang thing will scare the pants off you, to be honest it is a lot faster than is good for you.
On the cam the big grind Jose sugest is the ticket IMO, I think the bigger valves and post work really pays off also. My 2.8 has all that and a bit more and the dang thing will scare the pants off you, to be honest it is a lot faster than is good for you.
well i have a question for those that are using the ford 2.8 out of early 80's fords.....why dont more use the mid to late 80's FI 2.9 L? as they are a cologne v6 as well..actually so is the 4.0L for that matter??? 2.8, 2.9 and 4.0 trannies are interchangeable!!! Im thinking a ford explorer or ranger 4.0 and a 84 or 85 ranger/BroncoII C5 auto trans or a early 90's ranger/explorer m5od 5spd..would be the cats ass....as i know the 2.8, 2.9 and 4.0 are pretty much the same size, as i have swapped the 4.0 in to replace the 2.8 !!
just curious !!
just curious !!
This is one of the things that has been discussed many times before. For guys with the motto you have, usning a 2.9 or 4.0 isn't a problem. The 2.8 V6 is the only one of the three engines mentioned that goes in with minimal effort. The other engines take a lot of work and requires changing the steering system for starters. If you are going to change the steering system and do a lot of hood modification, why not go with a Chevy 3.4 V6; at least it won't need to have the hood modified to fit the fuel injection the Fords do.
The reason the 2.8 V6 is the easiest one to convert to, is that the exhaust ports are arranged in a weird way. Two of the ports are close together, and the other is positioned to where it isn't at the end of the head. This arrangement allows the steering arm to miss the exhaust port, which it runs into, on the 2.9 and 4.0. The 2.8 is also carbureted, which means the intake system fits under the stock hood. I know a guy that has been working on installing a 4.0 V6 into his Series II Alpine, for years. I don't know if he will ever get it done, but he is attempting it.
I can ssure you, if it were easily possible to install one of these other engines, I would have already done it. In fact, I investigated it a long time ago, but found that it wasn't the way I wanted to go. For those who want a bigger engine, for the amount of work it takes to install the 4.0, I would suggest putting in a Ford small block and then you get a V8 for just a little more effort.
Jose
The reason the 2.8 V6 is the easiest one to convert to, is that the exhaust ports are arranged in a weird way. Two of the ports are close together, and the other is positioned to where it isn't at the end of the head. This arrangement allows the steering arm to miss the exhaust port, which it runs into, on the 2.9 and 4.0. The 2.8 is also carbureted, which means the intake system fits under the stock hood. I know a guy that has been working on installing a 4.0 V6 into his Series II Alpine, for years. I don't know if he will ever get it done, but he is attempting it.
I can ssure you, if it were easily possible to install one of these other engines, I would have already done it. In fact, I investigated it a long time ago, but found that it wasn't the way I wanted to go. For those who want a bigger engine, for the amount of work it takes to install the 4.0, I would suggest putting in a Ford small block and then you get a V8 for just a little more effort.
Jose
Chuck Ingram
Donation Time
Hi Jim
Scare the pants of you!!
How fast is too fast to be too good for you
My wife thinks its better to go out in the 29 as then I can't show off or pass everybody with the Sunbeams.Her favorite quote being a bit sarcastic is "Did you really need to show how much power there is again?"
Hi Chuck,
I'm with you. I don't think there is such a thing as too much power; like there is no such thing as too much money. I found my Alpines just about right, although I wanted to try some giggle gas on them too. After all, it isn't really fun unless you get scared once in a while.
Jose
I'm with you. I don't think there is such a thing as too much power; like there is no such thing as too much money. I found my Alpines just about right, although I wanted to try some giggle gas on them too. After all, it isn't really fun unless you get scared once in a while.
Jose
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Chuck Ingram
Donation Time
Hi Chuck,
I'm with you. I don't think there is such a thing as too much power; like there is no such thing as too much money. I found my Alpines just about right, although I wanted to try some giggle gas on them too. After all, it isn't really fun unless you get scared once in a while.
Jose
Hi Jose
Well I have to wait till spring comes so I can show off.The 62's 302 now has 700 miles and it is really starting to loosen up a bit.Have to put new wheels and bigger tires come spring.
Oh and about getting scared, I don't think so anymore.I guess maturity is catching up to my age.
LOUSY weather here as winter is starting to set in.Freezing rain turning to snow overnight.This after breaking a 105 year old record for the warmest November 3rd
Oh well I can work in the garage more .It will be nice since I went and put a level flat insulated wooden floor in.Have started the new front end for the 62.It is the same as the one in the Lister.
Will email you later
Jim E
Donation Time
Guys I have a goofy gas kit I could put on my car in a day but to be honest it almost seems pointless. The car will boil the hides now the 205 tire is just not big enough and a bigger tire with more bite is just going to break something. Have had the rear end kick out on a freeway ramp, sidewas at 70 is a bit scary. The car is quick and just so tempting to drive fast.
There is a guy on the Ranger station or at least there use to be that runs a 600 vac secondary on his stock 2.8 with a home made adaptor plate on the stock intake and says or said it works. Not sure how he pulled that off unless the secondarys never kick in.
Then the guy who tuned on my 390, man did that make a difference, wanted bad to try a carb he had that was bigger a odd size holley something bigger the 390 but smaller than a 600, mech secondary carb that they run on circle track cars, as I recall.
There is a guy on the Ranger station or at least there use to be that runs a 600 vac secondary on his stock 2.8 with a home made adaptor plate on the stock intake and says or said it works. Not sure how he pulled that off unless the secondarys never kick in.
Then the guy who tuned on my 390, man did that make a difference, wanted bad to try a carb he had that was bigger a odd size holley something bigger the 390 but smaller than a 600, mech secondary carb that they run on circle track cars, as I recall.
A larger carb will work better at wide open throttle, but it is the dirveability in regular driving, that would be bad. As you know, some folks will be content with anything, but you and I want for the car to run at peak in all situations.
You are correct, in saying that more grip would begin to break things. That is why I recommend replacing the stock rear end, The little 2.8 V6 will never produce enough torque to be able to break a Ford 8". The Alpine is light enough to keep from breaking the Ford, because the car will move way before the rear end breaks. You will also need to use the bigger Ford U-joints too. I went through several Alpine U-joints, when I had the stock rear end in it, and my engine wasn't as powerful as yours is. My heads didn't have the larger valves.
In my case, more power is better, not only because it is a lot more fun to drive on the street, but because I was a drag racer and wanted the lowest E.T. I could get. I also wanted to surprise a lot of guys on the street. On the street, if you don't have a big enough gun, you see tail lights.
Jose
You are correct, in saying that more grip would begin to break things. That is why I recommend replacing the stock rear end, The little 2.8 V6 will never produce enough torque to be able to break a Ford 8". The Alpine is light enough to keep from breaking the Ford, because the car will move way before the rear end breaks. You will also need to use the bigger Ford U-joints too. I went through several Alpine U-joints, when I had the stock rear end in it, and my engine wasn't as powerful as yours is. My heads didn't have the larger valves.
In my case, more power is better, not only because it is a lot more fun to drive on the street, but because I was a drag racer and wanted the lowest E.T. I could get. I also wanted to surprise a lot of guys on the street. On the street, if you don't have a big enough gun, you see tail lights.
Jose
Jim E
Donation Time
I have broken my stock Alpine rear end twice. The first time I failed to listen and did not change the stock woodruff keys for hardened units and spun a hub. The second time I broke the cross shaft the spider gears ride on and that really busted things up, split the carrier like you hit it with an axe. Then I had the 3.89 gear set and think maybe that is why I busted the cross shaft, the car hooked better with the 3.89 gear. I now have a 4.22 gear and like the car much better it squirts around town and on the freeway in OD the car is more in the power band. Down side is the car does not hook as well, will spin very easy which may be easier on the rear end. Then again the 3.89 carrier and gear set may have just had a flaw in the cross shaft.
I have a modified stock Alpine drive shaft and have yet to break any part of it. I maybe wrong but do not think any larger diameter drive shaft will clear with the stock rear end being it is off set to one side.
I also managed to bust a 5.0 T5... somehow....
Word of caution for anyone building a V6 car, do not even think of driving it with out traction bars of some kind. You will wheel hope and bust something.
Guess we are off topic a bit but then again if you build the heads that make power you also have to think about what the results could be...
I have a modified stock Alpine drive shaft and have yet to break any part of it. I maybe wrong but do not think any larger diameter drive shaft will clear with the stock rear end being it is off set to one side.
I also managed to bust a 5.0 T5... somehow....
Word of caution for anyone building a V6 car, do not even think of driving it with out traction bars of some kind. You will wheel hope and bust something.
Guess we are off topic a bit but then again if you build the heads that make power you also have to think about what the results could be...
Jim E
Donation Time
Could be, is something they run on the roundy round dirt track cars here.
Hi Jim,
You are right about breaking things. My motto was, keep upgrading whatever breaks 'till things quit breaking. I just needed to have as much power as I could get, and I drove the pants off of it. Drag racing isn't the easiest on drive line parts either. I have broken clutches, pressure plates, U-joints, differential yokes and carrier bolts in the differential, which totalled the differential. The last, was in a Ford 8", but that was while running slicks and side stepping the clutch at 5,000 rpm. I never broke a T5 transmission or an engine, even though I red lined the engine at 7,000 rpm.
Jose
You are right about breaking things. My motto was, keep upgrading whatever breaks 'till things quit breaking. I just needed to have as much power as I could get, and I drove the pants off of it. Drag racing isn't the easiest on drive line parts either. I have broken clutches, pressure plates, U-joints, differential yokes and carrier bolts in the differential, which totalled the differential. The last, was in a Ford 8", but that was while running slicks and side stepping the clutch at 5,000 rpm. I never broke a T5 transmission or an engine, even though I red lined the engine at 7,000 rpm.
Jose
husky drvr
Platinum Level Sponsor
Could that have been a 4360 @ 475cfm?
The 4360 is essentially two Weber DGV's built into one four bbl body. I have heard of one used on a 2.8 Capri that did very well. It is smaller and lighter than the std. Holley carb as well.
Thanks for mentioning that Jim. I haven't floored it it 1st for fear of breaking the rear end, but I have in 2nd (after releasing the clutch). I get wheel hop until I finally let my foot of the gas.
I do have a set of hardened keys, but have no installed them yet. Once that is done, do I dare drop the clutch in 1st?
Mike T.