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1964 SUNBEAM BRAKES - MASTER CYL

Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
Robertm said:
I did not replace the hoses.
Click to expand...

I recommend that you do so; original brake hoses on Series Alpines are notorious for collapsing and causing problems.


Robertm said:
i noticed the right inside brake pad is much more worn than the others. Is that indicative of a sticking piston?
Click to expand...

Yes, but it is the side with the less worn pad that is the problem.


Robertm said:
I have not checked the rear drums, but I will. If the seals are leaking, does that show up inside the drums?
Click to expand...

Leaking wheel cylinders will certainly show up inside the drums and maybe outside as well.

Hint: Brake fluid (and most motor oils, greases, etc.) fluoresces (aka, glows blue-white) under a UV light source. I have this UV flashlight and it works well.

(https://www.amazon.com/Flashlight-V...ky+51+led+uv+flashlight&qid=1692754520&sr=8-1

A couple of notes. First, a significant leak anywhere in the Series Alpine "single circuit" hydraulic brake system can result in a complete loss of "foot" brakes which is why some owners change to a tandem master brake cylinder. Second, DOT 3/4/5.1 brake fluid is a fantastic paint remover.
 
Last edited:
J

JR66

Gold Level Sponsor
Another comment about replacing old brake hoses. When I was replacing one of my original hoses I had one end disconnected & open and I put some heat on the metal fitting on the other end to loosen it and the hose blew up. It seemed ok on the outside but was completely blocked somewhere inside and the pressure build up from the heat popped the hose rather than dissipating through the hose. Surprised me.
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
The hoses with age collapse inside and work like a valve letting fluid to the caliper but preventing return to the master. Brakes are a system and you should go through everything.
 
R

Robertm

Gold Level Sponsor
thanks all for the info. I will replace the brake hoses. makes me wonder if the old hoses are part of the original problem - excessively high pedal effort. Also, I hope there is a fix for a sticking piston other than simply replacing it.
 
R

Robertm

Gold Level Sponsor
Robertm said:
thanks all for the info. I will replace the brake hoses. makes me wonder if the old hoses are part of the original problem - excessively high pedal effort. Also, I hope there is a fix for a sticking piston other than simply replacing it.
Click to expand...
 
DanR

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
How old are the hoses on the calipers? They could be originals..... I changed out the pads on a volvo once an left the caliper connected to the hose. It was hanging there while I did the replacements. After bolting everything up and test driving the brakes seemed to want to drag for a while then they would slowly release. When I again took braking action they woul again seem to drag but slowly release..... Are you wondering what was wrong??

The brake hoses had broken up on the inside and would not allow the fluid to lose pressure but slowly release until the brakes were again applied.
Took me a while to figure what was wrong. An OLD Mechanic had the answer..... I had "kinked/damaged" the inside of the hose". Replaced the hose and all was well..
 
R

Robertm

Gold Level Sponsor
So I suspect the hoses and wheel cylinder(s) were bad. I replaced the hoses and everything seemed good when I bled the front brakes. When I bled the rear brakes there was a weird grind/shudder feel to the pedal and dark brake fluid started coming out. As i continued to bleed, the fluid cleared but i noticed lots of small rubber particles in the fluid. Assuming that the seals in one of the wheel cylinders disintegrated I ordered new wheel cylinders. I put them in but, of course, I stripped the threads then, i think, ruined the fitting on one side.

If my car wasn’t so pretty, I’d trade it in for a big TV and a case of beer.
 
sunalp

sunalp

Diamond Level Sponsor
While you're going through the brakes, you should probably rebuild your calipers. I generally bleed out the
system yearly, cleaning out the reservoirs an putting all new fluid in, then bleed the brakes. You'd be amazed
at what comes out. After sitting for 5 years or more, they're due for new seals.
 
F

fonz

Silver Level Sponsor
Barry said:
I recommend that you do so; original brake hoses on Series Alpines are notorious for collapsing and causing problems.




Yes, but it is the side with the less worn pad that is the problem.




Leaking wheel cylinders will certainly show up inside the drums and maybe outside as well.

Hint: Brake fluid (and most motor oils, greases, etc.) fluoresces (aka, glows blue-white) under a UV light source. I have this UV flashlight and it works well.

(https://www.amazon.com/Flashlight-V...ky+51+led+uv+flashlight&qid=1692754520&sr=8-1

A couple of notes. First, a significant leak anywhere in the Series Alpine "single circuit" hydraulic brake system can result in a complete loss of "foot" brakes which is why some owners change to a tandem master brake cylinder. Second, DOT 3/4/5.1 brake fluid is a fantastic paint remover.
Click to expand...
1 pad wearing more than the other is more like the caliper is "not able to slide sideways on the pins". pull and clean and lube the pins on both front brakes and the problem should disappear.
 
Barry

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
fonz said:
1 pad wearing more than the other is more like the caliper is "not able to slide sideways on the pins". pull and clean and lube the pins on both front brakes and the problem should disappear.
Click to expand...


Series Alpine brake calipers are solidly mounted and do not have slider pins.
 
F

fonz

Silver Level Sponsor
sunalp said:
One pad wearing more than another is a symptom of sticking calipers. One of the pistons
is sticking out and not retracting back into the caliper, hence the wear.
Click to expand...
ok, I FORGOT. MY MISTAKE. WHEN I REBUILT MINE WITH NEW PISTONS ETC, SO, IT INDEED MUST BE A PISTON NOT RETRACTING AS IT SHOULD.
 
R

Robertm

Gold Level Sponsor
Just as an update, I finally got my rear brakes working with new wheel cylinders, pads, hose and brake line. Pedal effort is substantially less (I replaced my series v mc with a series II mc) but travel can be alarming at times ( as someone predicted). Overall, they work so I’m happy.

Now to fix the stalling and fouled plugs.
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
Did you adjust the rear shoes to slight drag and adjust parking brake? That will help with pedal travel.
 
260Alpine

260Alpine

Silver Level Sponsor
I think only Series 5 had automatic adjusters. The earlier ones were manually adjusted. Hand brake cable can be adjusted too.
 
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