DuraPine II

[Bill Blue]

Depends on your definition of "same way". The alternator has been moved from below the AC compressor to its current location, which requires a different belt path, which does not gave as good a "wrap" around the fan pulley. The previous pulley had grooves cut.

Bill

 

[husky drvr]

Depends on your definition of "same way". The alternator has been moved from below the AC compressor to its current location, which requires a different belt path, which does not gave as good a "wrap" around the fan pulley. The previous pulley had grooves cut.

"Same way" = not. Rubber tire versus grooves. I was curious about belt life if you had done this method previously. I was actually trying to see how you're handling belt tension. I seem to recall you used a different method than an auto-tension pulley with the 2.3. I was just curious because I didn't see an obvious tension adjustment method in the picture. Built in to the AC bracket?

 

[MikeH]

You are a bit confused. The water pump is run by the black flat pulley. It is located close to the AC compressor. You probably mistook it for an idler.
Bill

You’re right. I just assumed the fan pulley drove the water pump. But I see it now.

 

[Bill Blue]

"Same way" = not. Rubber tire versus grooves. I was curious about belt life if you had done this method previously. I was actually trying to see how you're handling belt tension. I seem to recall you used a different method than an auto-tension pulley with the 2.3. I was just curious because I didn't see an obvious tension adjustment method in the picture. Built in to the AC bracket?

Yes, the AC compressor rotates on the engine side. In the photo it is in its lowest position. I have found it is difficult to duplicate the stock belt tension. Fortunately, it does not have to be nearly as tight as stock. One of the reasons to like serpentine belts. Can you imagine driving this mess with vee belts?

Bill

 

[Bill Blue]

You’re right. I just assumed the fan pulley drove the water pump. But I see it now.

I understand. When I first saw the Duratec belt drive system it was a real "WHOA!" moment.

Bill

 

[MikeH]

Couldn’t you have drilled holes in the existing pulley, instead of cutting it off and having to make a new one? Just curious.

 

[DanR]

Couldn’t you have drilled holes in the existing pulley, instead of cutting it off and having to make a new one? Just curious.

MIke, Your question is simple, and I seemed to wonder why also, then it occured to me that to drill holes with the pulley on the engine "could" create an out-of-balance condition in the pulley.

 

[Bill Blue]

Couldn’t you have drilled holes in the existing pulley, instead of cutting it off and having to make a new one? Just curious.

Good idea, but the short answer is "No". #1, while I was pretty sure there was a bolt that had to be removed, I had only a vague idea where it was located. #2, I had no way to immobilize the pulley while it was mounted on the engine. #3, the hole is located on the angled portion of the pulley. #4, it must be pretty large, about 5/8" dia in order to accept the socket. #5, one hole would insure balance problems when the pulley was reused, unless another identical hole (no problem) was properly located (could turn into a big problem). Due to the above, a milling machine/end mill operation would probably be needed to successfully "drill" the hole.

 

[Bill Blue]

Well rats. After all the trouble to run a mechanical fan, it will not work. The steering rack limits the fan to about a 10" diameter. Maybe bit less. Looks like a pair of electric fans, about 9" each are in my future. A single, large fan probably will foul the mechanical fan drive I would have to remove the spindle, which is a mechanical version of "Mission Impossible". Using the front wheel drive timing chain cover would not improve things all that much as the front motor mount would be in the way. Two 9" fans, one on each side of the radiator will dodge the fan spindle.

Bill

 

[Barry]

Bill,

You might want to consider using pusher electric fans rather puller fans. The object of the exercise is to move air through the radiator and, OTBE, pusher fans will move more air than puller fans. Moving the fans to the front side of the radiator could also free up some valuable real estate in the engine compartment.

 

[Bill Blue]

Other things are not equal. I will have heat exchangers stacked up. Radiator, condenser and trans cooler, all of which are different size - smallest one in front. Real estate becomes limiting mostly when using a single fan, be it electric or mechanical. But at this point nothing is for sure, other than the fact I cannot use the mechanical fan.

Bill

 

[husky drvr]

Well rats.

Using the front wheel drive timing chain cover would not improve things all that much as the front motor mount would be in the way. Two 9" fans, one on each side of the radiator will dodge the fan spindle. Bill

Bill,

Would it be possible to cut or machine the front mount off the FWD timing cover?

I know one of the kits for fitting GM FWD V6's into MGB's recommended that type surgery on those alloy sumps for installation clearance.

 

[DanR]

Mr Bill, I have a couple new fans 9 - 10 inch you can have.

Will send PIC and other info when I get home.

 

[Bill Blue]

Bill,

Would it be possible to cut or machine the front mount off the FWD timing cover?

I know one of the kits for fitting GM FWD V6's into MGB's recommended that type surgery on those alloy sumps for installation clearance.

No idea what alligators would be encountered. The actual machining would be very easy. However, doing so means removal of the crankshaft damper, which is torqued down to about 175 ft lbs, which probably means removal of the engine. First step is the removal of the crossmember. Not going to happen when I can use two fans instead of one.

Dan, are these the Kia fans? If so, which model?
Bill

 

[Bill Blue]

Chugging right along, I finished the transmission mount today. I tried one of Dan's beautiful tranny mounts, but it is designed to work with a V6 and T5 0r A4LD, not a Duratec with A4LD. The differences are pretty glaring when you try to use the mount for the wrong application. Nothing seems to fit. So I proceeded to design my own. It had to hold the tranny in place (of course), not interfere with the exhaust, clear the tranny oil pan, allow removal of said oil pan and use the stock mounting holes. Last, but very important, it had to be buildable by me. Here it is in its component phase.

Making it in components will allow the side pieces to be permanently installed and be out of the way when the tranny is removed.

Assembled


Pictures of it installed will be posted the second Tuesday of next week.

Bill

 

[Bill Blue]

Problem of the day: In order to avoid using a hood scoop for additional clearance, I elected to lower the intake manifold about 3/16". The problem: That will require using the Ranger valve cover because its profile is about 1/2" lower than the plastic Fusion valve cover. That picks up another problem, the Ranger valve cover does not have provisions for a dipstick and the Fusion block does not have provision for an external dipstick. So I must modify the Ranger (aluminum) valve cover to accommodate the dipstick. First step, accurate positioning of the diptstick hole.

The photo above is of the Fusion valve cover, lightly clamped onto the mill. The mill spindle is located over the dipstick hole by inserting a straight rod, in this case a transfer punch, into the hole.

The mill head is then raised, the Fusion valve cover removed and replaced with the Ranger head, which is clamped in place.



The hole is then milled.


The dipstick tower is machined of stainless steel and epoxied in place. I am very comfortable using epoxy for this job as the tower is well supported by the hole and there is no downward pressure, the tower sets on the base of the valve cover.


The actual milling was done is less than a minute. Hours were spent on working out the location and holding of the cover. Days spent deciding on the proper action. The lathe work was straight forward and uneventful.

Bill

 

[Aladin Sane]

That looks great.

 

[Barry]

Problem of the day: In order to avoid using a hood scoop for additional clearance, I elected to lower the intake manifold about 3/16". The problem: That will require using the Ranger valve cover because its profile is about 1/2" lower than the plastic Fusion valve cover. That picks up another problem, the Ranger valve cover does not have provisions for a dipstick and the Fusion block does not have provision for an external dipstick. So I must modify the Ranger (aluminum) valve cover to accommodate the dipstick. First step, accurate positioning of the diptstick hole.View attachment 21963

The photo above is of the Fusion valve cover, lightly clamped onto the mill. The mill spindle is located over the dipstick hole by inserting a straight rod, in this case a transfer punch, into the hole.

The mill head is then raised, the Fusion valve cover removed and replaced with the Ranger head, which is clamped in place.

View attachment 21964

The hole is then milled.
View attachment 21965

The dipstick tower is machined of stainless steel and epoxied in place. I am very comfortable using epoxy for this job as the tower is well supported by the hole and there is no downward pressure, the tower sets on the base of the valve cover.

View attachment 21966
The actual milling was done is less than a minute. Hours were spent on working out the location and holding of the cover. Days spent deciding on the proper action. The lathe work was straight forward and uneventful.

Bill

The first rule of the darkside is that something is always in the way of something else.

Nice solution!

 

[Bill Blue]

The first rule of the darkside is that something is always in the way of something else.

Nice solution!

That proved to be the rule while doing the milling machine set up. It seems that whenever I got the cover secured in a position that could be accurately duplicated, it was out of reach of the spindle. So whenever you see a machinist being very proud of what appears to be modest results, remember things are never as simple as they appear.

Bill

 

[Bill Blue]

Today I'm putting the finishing touches on the intake manifold. Goodness sakes, you say. "Why is he messing around with the intake manifold". Listen carefully children. It is an excellent example of "You can't change just one thing". Or one change leads to another.

The new Alpine came with Tiger style steering (poorly) installed. I decided to stay with it I was impressed with easy the (only) Tiger I have driven driven. Okay, so your going with a front steer setup, why mess with the intake? Well, the alternator was in the way of the rack and pinion steering shaft. The only available spot for the alternator is high on the right hand side engine block. Problem: There is no clearance between between the block and the inner fender with the engine laid over to the right. So the engine has to be upright, almost 90 degrees. That makes it tall, too tall for the intake manifold to clear the hood. Boss says"No holes in the hood". Lowered the manifold the most I could, 3/16", not enough. The throttle plate assembly sill hit the hood. Shortened the intake runners as much as I thought I could without drastically altering performance. Still not enough. Shortened the "throat" between the throttle plate assembly and the plenum down to zero. BINGO. That last step removed some important plumbing, which had to be restored. By the way, lowering the intake manifold required ditching the coil on plug ignition and using the Ranger valve cover, which required installing a dipstick hole in said cover.

Anyway, while messing with the manifold I cleaned up the air passage a bit. Here is the finished job, ready for paint.

The large opening is for the PVC and Idle Air. The little one is the reference port for the Fuel Pressure Regulator and MegaSquirt Manifold Pressure Sensor.


Here you can see inside the plenum. The sensor port is in front and slightly to the left of the air port.

Bill