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Window gap

P

Paul A

Alpine Registry Curator
Platinum Level Sponsor
I have owned my '67 Series V for 45 years. I have never been satisfied with the large gap between the side windows and the convertible top. I recently removed the top prior to installing a new one so the top frame and folding apparatus is accessible. I don't think the top frame is an issue but am open to suggestions. I will remove the door panels to ensure the bottom window channel is located correctly and moving as needed. Cleaning and lubrication. Any helpful hints/thoughts appreciated.

The new top will be the 3rd... I replaced the original about 25 years ago.
 

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Paul id like to see the front rail at the screen and 1/4 window ... But I'm almost sure your pivot arms are bent they don't come far enough into the B post slot and that would keep the frame back from the window .
 
alpine_64 said:
Paul id like to see the front rail at the screen and 1/4 window ... But I'm almost sure your pivot arms are bent they don't come far enough into the B post slot and that would keep the frame back from the window .
Click to expand...
You may be correct Windshield and quarter window relationship is quite good and any small adjustment would not alter the gap. Thanks for the reply.
 
I had the same problem. Here's a lot of info from my post.

Soft top from a S-4 or 5 and Installing on a Series 3 - WON'T FIT

S-III bought without top or windshield. Installed a windshield and aquired a softtop from a S-4 or 5 (b-post hardware included). Reading https://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/soft-top-and-hard-top-alignment.30530/#post-224532 Set windshield to 29.5" , moved bottofront window guide...
forum.sunbeamalpine.org forum.sunbeamalpine.org
 
That B-Post pivot arm is the weakest link in the whole Alpine design. Note that every time you raise the top from its stowed position, you usually pull the top up while gripping it from near the trunk. If the main pivot on the pivot assembly binds at all, the leverage you have from grabbing the frame near the top makes it easy to bend that joint where the vertical part of the frame attaches to that pivot assembly. It bends it up and forward, such that when the horizontal part of the frame anchors into the windshield, the bottom of the vertical part of the frame sets back a bit and the pivot assembly does not move all the way forward, resulting in that gap you see. The whole issue is exaggerated by the multiple opportunities for binding in the pivot assembly during the raising of the top. First of all, the main pivot in the assembly can get rusty and binds, especially as it approaches the near-vertical position, since that pivot rarely gets all the way to, or past, that point. In addition, note that the bolt that hold the frame to that pivot assembly is also a pivot. If that bolt is not free to easily pivot as the top is raised, there will be additional stress to bend the pivot assembly. Furthermore, the B-post casting includes a ramp that guides (forces) the moving part inward as the top is stowed, and a flat spring pushes the moving part outward as the top is raised. Note the total of FIVE sliding or rotating joints that are potential binding pints that can ultimately cause the pivot assembly to get bent out of shape. 1) the main pivot for the arm to rotate up and down 2) the pivot bolt that attaches the vertical frame to the pivot arm 3) the pivot rivet that holds the arm to the main pivot bracket,4) the ramp that forces the pivot in during stowing, and 5) the flat spring pushing the arm outward upon raising. Note also that I have seen several hinge assemblies where the P.O had replaced the bolt that holds the vertical frame part to the hinge assembly with a standard bolt and nut torques tightly so that that point did not pivot at all.

Depending on how badly the assembly is bent, you can often fix it by careful re-bending. The pivot bolt holding the vertical frame to the assembly is often bent. Replace it. be sure to use a nylock nut so it is free to pivot. Most of the bending is of the tab on the pivot arm where the vertical frame pivot bolt attaches. This can usually be re-bent enough using a vice and channel-lock pliers and possibly a torch.

Tom
 
Tom H said:
That B-Post pivot arm is the weakest link in the whole Alpine design. Note that every time you raise the top from its stowed position, you usually pull the top up while gripping it from near the trunk. If the main pivot on the pivot assembly binds at all, the leverage you have from grabbing the frame near the top makes it easy to bend that joint where the vertical part of the frame attaches to that pivot assembly. It bends it up and forward, such that when the horizontal part of the frame anchors into the windshield, the bottom of the vertical part of the frame sets back a bit and the pivot assembly does not move all the way forward, resulting in that gap you see. The whole issue is exaggerated by the multiple opportunities for binding in the pivot assembly during the raising of the top. First of all, the main pivot in the assembly can get rusty and binds, especially as it approaches the near-vertical position, since that pivot rarely gets all the way to, or past, that point. In addition, note that the bolt that hold the frame to that pivot assembly is also a pivot. If that bolt is not free to easily pivot as the top is raised, there will be additional stress to bend the pivot assembly. Furthermore, the B-post casting includes a ramp that guides (forces) the moving part inward as the top is stowed, and a flat spring pushes the moving part outward as the top is raised. Note the total of FIVE sliding or rotating joints that are potential binding pints that can ultimately cause the pivot assembly to get bent out of shape. 1) the main pivot for the arm to rotate up and down 2) the pivot bolt that attaches the vertical frame to the pivot arm 3) the pivot rivet that holds the arm to the main pivot bracket,4) the ramp that forces the pivot in during stowing, and 5) the flat spring pushing the arm outward upon raising. Note also that I have seen several hinge assemblies where the P.O had replaced the bolt that holds the vertical frame part to the hinge assembly with a standard bolt and nut torques tightly so that that point did not pivot at all.

Depending on how badly the assembly is bent, you can often fix it by careful re-bending. The pivot bolt holding the vertical frame to the assembly is often bent. Replace it. be sure to use a nylock nut so it is free to pivot. Most of the bending is of the tab on the pivot arm where the vertical frame pivot bolt attaches. This can usually be re-bent enough using a vice and channel-lock pliers and possibly a torch.

Tom
Click to expand...
thanks for the info Tom. Still adjusting things but making good progress. There was no rust to contend with and lubrication of all pivot points has helped. Looking for new cantrail weatherstripping now. Mine has been replaced once about 25 years ago.
 
Paul, good that those pivot points are now well lubricated. But my main point is that over the past 60 years every time the top went up it is likely that some bending has occurred at that complex joint where the vertical frame meets to pivot assembly. To solve the wind gap, you need to undo that bend. Envisioning how it got bent should help figure out how/where to UN-bend it.

Also, in your photos, I cannot tell if that is a nylock nut on the bolt that holds vertical frame to the pivot assembly. Is it?

Tom
 
Tom H said:
Paul, good that those pivot points are now well lubricated. But my main point is that over the past 60 years every time the top went up it is likely that some bending has occurred at that complex joint where the vertical frame meets to pivot assembly. To solve the wind gap, you need to undo that bend. Envisioning how it got bent should help figure out how/where to UN-bend it.

Also, in your photos, I cannot tell if that is a nylock nut on the bolt that holds vertical frame to the pivot assembly. Is it?

Tom
Click to expand...
Hi Tom.. thanks for the info and suggestions. I was able to get things straightened to a point much better than what I started with. It is not perfect, but greatly improved. The new top fits well and looks good and the windows gaps are greatly reduced. I think, once I install the new weather stripping the gaps should be eliminated. Yes, the two bolts have nylock nuts. I have long felt the design of the top frame was likely done on the day following the company picnic.
 
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