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Will This Cook My Oil?

Discussion in 'Modified Alpine' started by Bill Blue, Jan 24, 2011.

  1. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    Here is shot of my new oil pan. The concave portion on the left is to crossover the exhaust pipe.

    This is how it looks installed with the exhaust pipe.
    I am concerned about the clearance as the pipe runs under the pan. At the top of the pipe, there is about 1" clearance. At the front, there is 3/4" between the pipe and pan. Is this sufficient, if not, how much clearance should I have?

    By the way, this pan is almost 3" shorter than the stock Ranger pan. Will give over 6" of ground clearance!

  2. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    I'd put header tape around it, and a reflective plate between the tube and the sump.
  3. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    Jarrid, where should the shield be placed, close to the heat source, the heat target, in the middle, or does it make any difference?

  4. afssanders

    afssanders Donation Time

    I've seen a lot of front wheel drive cars with about the same clearance mine included, but most have alum pans and oil coolers. If you roll up a piece of 20 ga. SS and two rings you can make a quick shield. SS reflexs more heat then other metals. Oh and that heat tape. Wow it really really works. I'm a believer in that stuff. Two layers of that will for sure work. I bought the stuff with graphite in it. Very cool stuff.
  5. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    You can mig it to the pan if you wish.
    Just weld in a few places to minimize the heat transfer.
  6. Toyanvil

    Toyanvil Gold Level Sponsor

    You can have your exhaust pipe ceramic coated, like they do on motorcycles.
  7. afssanders

    afssanders Donation Time

    That ceramic coating doesn't help nearly enough. I've been there and been burnt. The wrap does. I can lean on my headers right after I shut it down. Not shitting you. The heat shield if you go that route should be welded to your pipe. For a couple of reasons. One. You're already working on it and the oil pan is painted. Two. It'll keep the heat there and not transfer the heat to the pan. Favor the pipe. About a 3/8" space to the pipe. 5/8 to the pan. By the looks of it. I would also sand blast the inside of the pan and JB weld the seams.
  8. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    Thanks to you and Jarrid for the ideas.

    What do you see that suggests I should sand blast the inside? I cleaned up the interior parts with Scoth Brite pads. The exterior was treated with a phosphoric acid product to give the paint some tooth. Unfortunately, the paint got scratched up on the bottom. I'll touch that up immediately before installation.

    I also RTV'd the seams on the inside of the pan after welding everything except the windage tray.

  9. britbeam

    britbeam Gold Level Sponsor

    Bill what happens if the RTV starts breaking down inside the pan? Will the oil pickup screen keep out the RTV particles?Just curious.
    Dwain V6 Krazy
  10. Chuck Ingram

    Chuck Ingram Donation Time

    I think you could drop the crossover a couple of inches according to what I see in the picture.Then some header tape for sure.
  11. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    That would put my ground clearance at about 4 1/4", only 3/4" more than when I started. Ain't no way.

  12. afssanders

    afssanders Donation Time

    The welds suggest you sand blast the inside and JB it up. JB weld is very reliable and won't break down from the gassy oil in the pan. I would not depend on that silicone hanging in there. I'm not try to put you down or cause waves here. I'm just saying.
  13. puff4

    puff4 Diamond Level Sponsor

    I totally agree. When that silicone comes loose - and it eventually will - it will go places in your motor that will really cause headaches. JB Weld is fantastic stuff, and it's made exactly for what has been said here... it will work great. But somehow you're going to have to get that silicone residue off that pan - sandblasting might do it... if not, liquid freon is the only true remover/solvent I know, and that's pretty impossible to get anymore.
  14. V6 JOSE

    V6 JOSE Donation Time

    Hi Bill,

    Since you decreased the capacity of the pan, your oil will get hotter, even without that exhaust pipe under it. I would run Mobil 1 synthetic oil, which will support more heat before it begins to burn.

    I think header tape would help a lot too, but the smaller amount of oil will affect the temp more than the pipe will. My turbo Alpine had the cross over pipe under the pan, but what affected the oil temp on long high speed trips, was the fact that the pan only held 4 quarts. I used synthetic oil and suffered no dammage to the engine, despite the 230 degree temps it sustained for long periods of time.

    What I wanted to know, is why you didn´t kick out the sides of the pan so the oil capacity wouldn´t be deminished. There is plenty of room below the front crossmember to do that.

  15. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    The pan is a kit. The kit includes internal baffling and a windage tray. In order to kick out the pan the entire kit would have to be modified. As it turns out, the pan is about an inch thinner than it needs to be for the application, but that too would require much rework. The unmodified kit has more capacity than the stock pan. I really don't know how to determine capacity, so don't know exactly how much capacity my pan has. Any information on that issue would be welcomed. At four quarts, the stock capacity, the oil level is below the windage tray.

    I must admit that I cannot figure out this TRV thing. The engine was factory assembled with no pan gasket, just a gray RTV. It certainly has not degraded and some of it was hanging onto the inside of the pan, so I thought I would be safe using Permatex Ultra Black, which Permatex says offers the best oil resistance of all their RTV's, which includes the gray stuff.

    Still thinking.

  16. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    While "thinking", I spent a little time with the Google Machine and found this bit of information in the Pematex Ultra Black TDS.

    "Chemical / Solvent Resistance
    The product retains effective properties in contact with
    automotive fluids, such as motor oil, transmission fluids,
    alcohol and antifreeze solutions. Note: Not recommended for
    parts in contact with gasoline."

    Does that solve my RTV oil resistance issue?

  17. britbeam

    britbeam Gold Level Sponsor

    While the info sounds good from the mfg I personally dont trust the idea. Maybe Im Old School but when Ive used RTV on pan gaskets Ive disappointed in it. Just not worth chancing when you have money and time in work at risk.
    Dwain V6 Krazy
  18. afssanders

    afssanders Donation Time

    Your seal against the block will be fine, but I would seriously dig that stuff out of the inside of the pan. I'm a believer in silicone too, but only when it comes to it sandwiched between two parts. I'm sure that's how the manufacturer indended it to be used and rated it as well. Over time gas buildups up in the oil and that's where you're going to run into a problem. Or you could just leave it and let us know how long it takes. I'd say two years. Depends on how often you change the oil. MEK will break it done and make it easier to remove.

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