• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

Wheel Alignment

Alpine 1789

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
The wheels on my SIV appear to be badly out of alignment. With the left tire pointing straight ahead, the right tire looks like it is pointing outwards about an inch. I figured it was a function of previous work on the car and nothing to worry about until it the car was drivable and could be professionally aligned. However, I just took a look at my SV and noticed that it looks the same way. As far as I know, the alignment on that car is fine; it tracks straight and the tires are wearing evenly.

So, is this the way it is supposed to be?

Jim
 
No. With the wheels in the straight-ahead position they should be parallel to each other. Since there is always some slack in the steering joints, rear-wheel drive cars are aligned with the fronts of the front wheels pointing slightly inward (called "toe-in"), so that when in motion the slack is taken up and the wheels are then parallel. To do this the specs call for a toe-in of 1/8." An expert alignment specialist might make it slightly more if the steering joints have more slack.

The only other adjustment is camber - the amount in degrees that the tops of the front wheels point inward ("negative") or outward ("positive"). The specs are from 1/4 degree to 3/4 degree positive, although some drivers, particularly for competition use, prefer negative.

Caster angle is non-adjustable.

Note that the car must be resting on its wheels to adjust toe-in or camber angle. Some purists even insist that ballast equivalent to an adult's weight is placed in each seat.
 
Nickodell said:
No. With the wheels in the straight-ahead position they should be parallel to each other. Since there is always some slack in the steering joints, rear-wheel drive cars are aligned with the fronts of the front wheels pointing slightly inward (called "toe-in"), so that when in motion the slack is taken up and the wheels are then parallel. To do this the specs call for a toe-in of 1/8." An expert alignment specialist might make it slightly more if the steering joints have more slack.

The only other adjustment is camber - the amount in degrees that the tops of the front wheels point inward ("negative") or outward ("positive"). The specs are from 1/4 degree to 3/4 degree positive, although some drivers, particularly for competition use, prefer negative.

Caster angle is non-adjustable.

Note that the car must be resting on its wheels to adjust toe-in or camber angle. Some purists even insist that ballast equivalent to an adult's weight is placed in each seat.
Click to expand...

Bear in mind that the toe-in spec was established for bias ply tires and that radials generally do not require as much toe-in.

http://www.saoca.org/Sforum/viewtopic.php?p=20425&highlight=toe*#20425
 
Reduced toe is sort of built into the process. The Rootes 1/8" spec is measured at the sidewall. US convention measures on the tread of the tire.

Bill
 
tow in or out

Jim Stone said:
The wheels on my SIV appear to be badly out of alignment. With the left tire pointing straight ahead, the right tire looks like it is pointing outwards about an inch. As far as I know, the alignment on that car is fine; it tracks straight and the tires are wearing evenly.

So, is this the way it is supposed to be?

As others have most correctly mentioned, I will insert another idea. Have you done a test to visually look at the crossover arm while someone is moving the steering wheel? I had the same problem on my ser ll, then did the test.. I replaced the cross over rubbers with a kit from SS. It was a job but it is straight now.
my 2p
Chuck
Click to expand...
 
I am not home right now, but will look at them when I get back and have a helper around. I am planning on rebuilding the front end anyway (and may just unbolt it and bring it with me to the Invasion), so that will be a good place to start.

And, while I appreciate everyone's input into this, I am still left confused by the fact that both Alpines look the same to me. Given that my SV drives fine and there is no unusual tire wear, I can't help but think that maybe this is just the way it 'looks' and that they aren't out of alignment at all. Is there an easy way to check gross alignment without using any special tools?
 
Jim, it may be a result of the Alpine's oddly shaped fenders, an optical illusion if you will.
I thought the S V was pretty close after re-assembly (to the eye) but Holy crap was I wrong!
Unfortunately with the front to rear tracking being different, the "string method" doesnt work too well.
I would suggest not worrying about the one with the rebuild scheduled, but on your other car, try to lay a straight edge off to the side of the car and then measure from the line to the front and back of each tire (a carpenters square works well. Once you get the straight edge square to the rear wheel then square the front wheel to the straight edge using the steering.
Then check the other side to see if the front is square to the rear without moving the steering wheel.
Kinda alot of BS but what i've come to notice is that even with BOTH front wheels tracking straight, if you "sight" one of the front wheels to what you think is straight ahead, the other wheel will look like it's already going around the corner. I think it is due to the way the fender is narrower in front than in back.
 
There is some amount of optical illusion with the fenders. I notice it if the tires aren't point straight ahead. The further either direction, the more it appears. But also remember that as they turn they won't point exactly the same as the turning circle will be different from inside to outside wheel.
 
Jim, I don't recall that improper toe will cause uneven tire wear.

A quick and dirty method of checking toe is to set a carpenters square against the ouside edge of the tire at the tread and put a mark on the floor at the inside edge of the square. Do this at the front and rear of each tire on both sides of the car. Move the car out of the way and measure and compare the distance between the marks. The front marks should be about 1/8" closer together than the rear ones. Don't know of anyway to get a reasonable idea by measuring directly without some special made equipment.

Bill
 
Bill Blue said:
The front marks should be about 1/8" closer together than the rear ones. Don't know of anyway to get a reasonable idea by measuring directly without some special made equipment.

Bill
Click to expand...

With two carpenter squares you can get pretty close. I just completed this on mine to get things close enough so that I can drive it down to the alignment shop once the new wheels arrive.

I first put a 4x4 block next to the outside of each tire, then placed the square on top. Raising the squares up like this meant they were indexing off of a wider part of the tire rather than just a narrow area down next to the floor. Then I just measured from one square to the other, in front of and in back of the tire and adjusted things to the 1/8" toe-in.

On Easter, when my Sunbeam was finally resurrected after 10 long years of restoration, I hadn't performed this check. A visually alignment proved not to do the trick, as things were so far out of wack that I left a trail of rubber as I took the car a block down the steet and back. Turns out my initial visual adjustment was off by 2". After adjusting things with the dual-square method, I enjoyed a full half hour of zipping around the neighborhood without any noticeable alignment issues.

Andy
 
The carpenter square will get you close.
I used one of those laser levels that was an early one which attached to an ordinary level. I duct taped it to the rear wheels at center and level.The laser beam made it easy to align very close to straight. I also got the castor close enough with a level..I was good on one side and just off on the other.My friend who owns a big shop thought it was a good idea as I was that close.He had a very special front end man who did a lot of club cars but only Tuesday and Wednesdays as that was his special car days..He was an extreme perfectionist and would not look at the clock.Sometimes he made my friend mad at the time he would take.He has done all my cars. Alas he decided to go elsewhere even though my friend offered him more money.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top