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What engine do I have.

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by sunny67, Mar 26, 2022.

  1. sunny67

    sunny67 Silver Level Sponsor

    I just purchased a 67 Alpine. The sheet metal is in excellent shape but needs mechanical and cosmetic restoration. I restore cars as a hobby but this is my first Sunbeam. I’m sure I will have many questions in the future but there’s one that needs answering before I even start. What engine do I have? It’s not original but it’s based on the original 1.7L. The vin on the block is B389001551 and the 3 stamping on the head are 1981161, H67A, and 3469. Notice the “flutting” on the head between the spark plugs, the different valve cover, and the single carburetor in the attached pictures. Any help is appreciated.
     

    Attached Files:

  2. volvoguys

    volvoguys Diamond Level Sponsor

    VIN prefix B389 is for Sunbeam Alpine fastback.

    Mark ..... volvoguys
     
    sunny67 likes this.
  3. husky drvr

    husky drvr Platinum Level Sponsor

    Welcome to the forum sunny67.

    It's the lower spec iron head version of the 1725. The valves are in a different order so upgrading to the Alpine parts would also require a cam change.

    Hope this helps,
     
  4. sunny67

    sunny67 Silver Level Sponsor

    That helps a lot. I have access to a Sunbeam head and I wouldn’t have known about the need to change the cam. Thanks
     
  5. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    Wow. A PO went to some effort to install an upgraded fuse box, aftermarket booster and other bits, but settled for a replacement motor rated at 20+ fewer HP than stock.

    You'll need a valve cover to go with the new head. You should have your pick from numerous folks who will gladly send you one for the cost of freight. From the pics it looks like you'll also need an oil cooler, hoses and appropriate oil filter base. The Coupe fastback came with neither oil cooler nor aluminum oil pan. One of the two is necessary on a 1725 with aluminum head.

    You're also missing heater hoses. The heater core should be under the bonnet release plate.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2022
  6. husky drvr

    husky drvr Platinum Level Sponsor

    Don't forget, different valve order will also require different intake and exhaust systems.
     
  7. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    A few changes for the iron head to alloy.
    Obviously head, cam, intake and exhaust manifold, rocker cover.

    For the cam make sure you get a 5 main ( 1725 cam) the pre sv motors are 3 main bearing and the cam amd distributor have different number of teeth on their gears and wont work for the 1725.
    You can swicth a early cam into a 1725 but have to change the drive gears
     
  8. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    I feel I got the lions share of that 20+ hp back by boring out the throat of the manifold and installing the S&S knock off carb. If the engine is in good shape, that would be an inexpensive way to "bring it back alive", of more precisely, "bring it back to life." Also, Bob Web has all the stuff to convert the engine to aluminum head and twin carbs. It is my understanding the engine would keep the Fastback valve configuration.

    Bill
     
  9. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Bill you reffering to the valve gear...as in order and still ohv ....
    Or suggesting the manifolds on the iron head can be used on the alloy.
    The iron head manifolds have different intake and exhaust port locations so manifolds wont work on alloy heads
     
  10. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    Michael, I'm suggesting nothing other than what Bob told me. He said he had everything to convert my iron headed Alpine into an alloy head, twin carb setup. What that may entail, especially in the way of camshafts, is beyond my meager knowledge of the 1725 family. As I recall, Bob gave a quick rundown of what I would need to change and it was all exterior engine components. But I do recall he said the '69 manifolds would have to be used due to the engine layover. Probably best to disregard my memory as there are too many ways offhand conversation can be interpreted. Too much of a gap between his knowledge of the subject and mine as well as too many comas and sunrises on my part.

    Bill
     
  11. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Bill the fastback motors lay over 10° so the manifolds are angled to keep varbs level/ elevated.
    When you put a faskback motor into an alpine ( or any audux body rootes ca) you cant use the manifolds as the carbs will face down.. Alloy head or iron.

    But to swicth an iron head to alloy.. Even on an upright you have to get alloy head manifolds as the port layout are different.
     
  12. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    I should also note, re: iron head rootes motors.
    The disadvantage of them is weight and their metals cooling abilities.

    Also most applications ran single carbs.. But there were factory twin carb setups for both vertcial and canted iron head.. And also after market.

    A big advantage of the iron head motors is they didnt have the habbit of blowing headgaskets lile the alloy heads.

    There is also a combustion chamber modification for the iron head in the vizard book and iirc it yeilded better % gains than the one for alloy heads.

    There were guys rayying hunters in Australian that preffered the iron head motors due to their reliability with headgaskets over the alloy head.

    So @Bill Blue . If you are hunting performace from the motor look into the vizard iron head mods and a cam change...

    Maybe jump onto some of the hillman hunter forums and see what the iron head guys are dping.

    I know lymx in Australia still offered some intake manifolds for those motors.
     
  13. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    I was aware of the Vizard modification as I copied and distributed this information worldwide many, many years ago. Would you believe I can't find a copy? I've been thinking I may go the Vizard mos, depends on which way we go with th8s car. But for now, the carb update will suffice, it really woke up the engine. Right now I am more concerned about gearing, the cat really needs a 5th gear. A problem for me is space, I cannot get the '69 into my work area.
    Bill
     
  14. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Bill have some questions and suggestions. But instead of railraoding the thread will take to PM
     
  15. Alpine 1789

    Alpine 1789 SAOCA President Diamond Level Sponsor

    While there aren't that many iron head engines in the Club, why not start a new thread on improving iron head power? It would be nice to document that for posterity.
     
  16. sunny67

    sunny67 Silver Level Sponsor

    I found this head not too far from me. Pardon my lack of knowledge but is this an improvement over the iron head on my Alpine? I figure for $25, it’s a steal if it’s what I want but worth the gamble if not. Also, does anyone know if the rocker arm assembly on by iron head works on this one?
     

    Attached Files:

  17. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    Looks pretty clean. Valves sit nice and high and even. It looks like its been shaved a little - maybe 30 thou? - so you might have to back off the timing a smidge to run on regular. I'd grab it up quick before someone else stumbles on it.

    How about a couple of side views? Maybe someone can look up the part # and tell us whether its for late Series V or for the later Arrow Range?

    If memory serves, the rocker arms on a cast iron head are shorter in length than on aluminum heads.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2022
  18. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    The head is a very late SV or arrows head. It has the individual popups For the intake ports in the casting. So will also lack the spark plug tubes.

    Head looks good. Has wear bars there and the water paasage edges arent heavily corroded or misshaped.
    Id buy it.. Pressure test it.. Then male sure its surface is true.. Have it dippedto rid any corrosion in the water passages.
    Good buy by the looks
     
  19. sunny67

    sunny67 Silver Level Sponsor

    Sorry for the delay in my follow-up question. I’ve been out of pocket. My goal is to return the Alpine motor to a near stock condition. Although the aluminum head I have, as shown in previous pictures in this thread, is not exactly stock, I am assuming that it is similar in performance. Please correct me if I’m wrong.

    The other question I have is about the cam. Since new cams are not available, I will almost certainly send whatever cam I end up with to a machine shop like Delta Camshaft for restoring and enhancing. Previous responders in this thread have said the the cam I presently have in the engine will not work with the aluminum head I have. Why is that? Would I be able to use it as a base cam to be updated by the machine shop or must I get a different cam? If I need to get another cam, what casting number/s do I look for?
     
  20. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Diamond Level Sponsor

    Rootes parts in Holland has new cams for 1725 and 1592!
     
    sunny67 likes this.

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