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"Weekend Racer" Alpine Back running!
- Thread starter spmdr
- Start date
Jay Laifman
Platinum Level Sponsor
Just a thought. Do you anticipate any of the historic groups you'd race with care about the Webers?
And are you doing 3 main or 5 main engine?
And are you doing 3 main or 5 main engine?
Last edited:
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
Jay, we are running a 1725.
I doubt anyone will say anything about the bigger Webers until the Alpine gets more attention...
Steve Alcala took the WR Alpine to the Cobra Club Track event this weekend.
Steve claims he had fun but there were issues with the car.
It was running quite well going on the trailer
But not so well at the track.
Between changing to an open exhaust and the higher elevation,
the Alpine was running too rich.
...and the BIG selection of Vintage Weber jets were left at home. BOOOOOO!
My fault.
Also, before going to the track, I attempted to get some New points
to replace the over used ones in the Centrifugal only Holbay Dist.
NO luck with shopping locally!
The points are NOT the same as common Alpine.
Little did I know....
I held my breath the points would last the weekend.
They didn't!
I adjusted them on Saturday, but by Sunday, they needed help again.
In spite of the Challenges, a Good time at the Track was had.
... Including running with some Ford GTs!
A first Gen in front and a second Gen behind.
I doubt anyone will say anything about the bigger Webers until the Alpine gets more attention...
Steve Alcala took the WR Alpine to the Cobra Club Track event this weekend.
Steve claims he had fun but there were issues with the car.
It was running quite well going on the trailer
But not so well at the track.
Between changing to an open exhaust and the higher elevation,
the Alpine was running too rich.
...and the BIG selection of Vintage Weber jets were left at home. BOOOOOO!
My fault.
Also, before going to the track, I attempted to get some New points
to replace the over used ones in the Centrifugal only Holbay Dist.
NO luck with shopping locally!
The points are NOT the same as common Alpine.
Little did I know....
I held my breath the points would last the weekend.
They didn't!
I adjusted them on Saturday, but by Sunday, they needed help again.
In spite of the Challenges, a Good time at the Track was had.
... Including running with some Ford GTs!
A first Gen in front and a second Gen behind.
Last edited:
husky drvr
Platinum Level Sponsor
If you're interested, a link to an article with David Vizards thoughts about exhaust systems. Probably old news in your world.
jdoclogan
Platinum Level Sponsor
Don,
I utilized Vizards approach in developing my Sunbeam Alpine header. Mathematically smaller is better for tube sizing - 1.25" (1" ID) vs 1.5" (1.25"ID). However the critical component is the collector. 2" OD X 15" length for maximum scavenging. Note: the collector has a pulse reducer installed.
PULSE REDUCER design
I'm getting closer to testing this prototype header as my engine builds are being assembled as I write.
I utilized Vizards approach in developing my Sunbeam Alpine header. Mathematically smaller is better for tube sizing - 1.25" (1" ID) vs 1.5" (1.25"ID). However the critical component is the collector. 2" OD X 15" length for maximum scavenging. Note: the collector has a pulse reducer installed.
PULSE REDUCER design
I'm getting closer to testing this prototype header as my engine builds are being assembled as I write.
Last edited:
alpine_64
Donation Time
The guys that developed the HS roller rockers used to offer behive springs and lightweight retainers
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
I have Modified VW Titanium Retainers on both Alpine engines I'm playing with.
And there is a chance some of the Springs I use on the Tiger Racers may fit the Alpines.
...I just never gave it a thought to check the possibilities.
I just assumed the Tiger springs would be too stiff, for an Alpine.
But talking to the Sage Head guy, maybe Not the case....
DW
And there is a chance some of the Springs I use on the Tiger Racers may fit the Alpines.
...I just never gave it a thought to check the possibilities.
I just assumed the Tiger springs would be too stiff, for an Alpine.
But talking to the Sage Head guy, maybe Not the case....
DW
alpine_64
Donation Time
Jerry,
.progressing nicely...which engine spec ( rod/piston/cam/ valve) combo is this ?
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
BTW, Back in the '90s we tested a Vintage Race Tiger on a chassis dyno.
We didn't have a grand plan so about the only thing we learned was about the exhaust
systems.
We started with a full muffled exhaust system and got a number that we assumed to be the lowest number we would see.
It was.
We removed the mufflers, at a joint just after the pipe came through the main X-frame.
I assumed this configuration would give the highest HP numbers,
because this was the usual Drag Race configuration, known for max HP.
And, yes the numbers were higher than with the mufflers.
We next put on the open pipes to get the exhaust out from under the car, they exit in front of the rear tires.
Low and behold, this configuration gave the highest Numbers!
In retrospect, this most likely points to the possibility that the pipe sizing is not correct for the best drag Race configuration results...
Big disclaimer here, I know there is Power to be had with (newer) Exhaust systems.
But My position is that sight and SOUND is the Heart and soul of Vintage Racing.
So with the Tiger, I'm NOT going the X-pipe direction.
We spent zero effort getting the BEST Tiger exhaust system.
Tigers have power to spare, Alpines, Not so much.
So with the Alpine, I REALLY don't want to leave Power on the table, if I can help it.
Try EVERYTHING and Make notes.
DW
We didn't have a grand plan so about the only thing we learned was about the exhaust
systems.
We started with a full muffled exhaust system and got a number that we assumed to be the lowest number we would see.
It was.
We removed the mufflers, at a joint just after the pipe came through the main X-frame.
I assumed this configuration would give the highest HP numbers,
because this was the usual Drag Race configuration, known for max HP.
And, yes the numbers were higher than with the mufflers.
We next put on the open pipes to get the exhaust out from under the car, they exit in front of the rear tires.
Low and behold, this configuration gave the highest Numbers!
In retrospect, this most likely points to the possibility that the pipe sizing is not correct for the best drag Race configuration results...
Big disclaimer here, I know there is Power to be had with (newer) Exhaust systems.
But My position is that sight and SOUND is the Heart and soul of Vintage Racing.
So with the Tiger, I'm NOT going the X-pipe direction.
We spent zero effort getting the BEST Tiger exhaust system.
Tigers have power to spare, Alpines, Not so much.
So with the Alpine, I REALLY don't want to leave Power on the table, if I can help it.
Try EVERYTHING and Make notes.
DW
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
The WR Alpine got some changes before the last test event, LA SAAC
at the Streets of Willow, last weekend
1) Installed the Std Pertronix Igniter.
(Pertronix project here: )
https://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/pertronix-i-and-ii-oh-my.32079
2) installed an engine Oil temp gauge.
3) Modified the Oil Pressure Relief valve, again.
It was a HOT day at the Track!!! How about 113!
The Pertronix pasted the HIGH Heat test!
With the extra heat and elevation, the jetting Needed changing!
With the recent change to 45s, 145 mains seemed to work quite well.
...in the cool and low lands.
But at Willow, the AF gauge was laying down at the bottom, in the 9s.
A change to 135 helped everything!
But the AF was Still too low, in the 10s.
A change to 130s was too lean and the engine missed.
However, the AF was Still suggesting it was too rich! ....Hmmmmmm??
I'm wondering if the float level is still an issue.
With the High heat, I was happy to see the oil temp never went above 230.
The oil Pressure was a little lower than in the past But the change to the valve
is a work in process.
The mod was to make the end bolt Big enough to let the piston come out
and future mods to be tested.
The 7/16" bolt was replaced with a 1/2" bolt
Exhibit OPRV:
DW
at the Streets of Willow, last weekend
1) Installed the Std Pertronix Igniter.
(Pertronix project here: )
https://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/pertronix-i-and-ii-oh-my.32079
2) installed an engine Oil temp gauge.
3) Modified the Oil Pressure Relief valve, again.
It was a HOT day at the Track!!! How about 113!
The Pertronix pasted the HIGH Heat test!
With the extra heat and elevation, the jetting Needed changing!
With the recent change to 45s, 145 mains seemed to work quite well.
...in the cool and low lands.
But at Willow, the AF gauge was laying down at the bottom, in the 9s.
A change to 135 helped everything!
But the AF was Still too low, in the 10s.
A change to 130s was too lean and the engine missed.
However, the AF was Still suggesting it was too rich! ....Hmmmmmm??
I'm wondering if the float level is still an issue.
With the High heat, I was happy to see the oil temp never went above 230.
The oil Pressure was a little lower than in the past But the change to the valve
is a work in process.
The mod was to make the end bolt Big enough to let the piston come out
and future mods to be tested.
The 7/16" bolt was replaced with a 1/2" bolt
Exhibit OPRV:
DW
Last edited:
Jay Laifman
Platinum Level Sponsor
I just commented on the Pertronix posting. But more to the point, do you have any subjective thoughts on how it runs and the power?
husky drvr
Platinum Level Sponsor
Or maybe an HEI module that is triggered by points to fire the coil?
Last edited:
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
Well, the Pertronix is just a temp fix for used up points.
It's VERY frustrating to have the Alpine run quite good
going on the trailer and have it run "in the sewer"
at the track!
Steve ran it in the Range of 3000-5000 rpms.
He was VERY happy with it!
I took it out for a few laps in the afternoon
and it was missing above about 5500!
I was VERY UNhappy with the way it ran.
HOWEVER, one Benny of a hot day at the track,
is the tires get a head start on Temp!
No such thing as COLD tires!
Boy did the Alpine STICK to the TRACK!!!!
It's no wonder Steve had a great time driving the Alpine,
The Handing was GIDDY GOOD!!
BUT, The High heat of the day really limited my ambition to make changes...
It's clear a magnetic triggered (type 43 w/mag pickup) MSD 6AL is in the future
of the WR Alpine.
Also, the S V tach's days are numbered.
I need a tach that goes to at least 8K.
THEN it's on to Bigger and better things....RPMs and POWER!
DW
It's VERY frustrating to have the Alpine run quite good
going on the trailer and have it run "in the sewer"
at the track!
Steve ran it in the Range of 3000-5000 rpms.
He was VERY happy with it!
I took it out for a few laps in the afternoon
and it was missing above about 5500!
I was VERY UNhappy with the way it ran.
HOWEVER, one Benny of a hot day at the track,
is the tires get a head start on Temp!
No such thing as COLD tires!
Boy did the Alpine STICK to the TRACK!!!!
It's no wonder Steve had a great time driving the Alpine,
The Handing was GIDDY GOOD!!
BUT, The High heat of the day really limited my ambition to make changes...
It's clear a magnetic triggered (type 43 w/mag pickup) MSD 6AL is in the future
of the WR Alpine.
Also, the S V tach's days are numbered.
I need a tach that goes to at least 8K.
THEN it's on to Bigger and better things....RPMs and POWER!
DW
Last edited:
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
I finally put the MSD 6AL ignition box and Blaster 2 coil on the WR Alpine.
I used a Lucas 41814A 45DM4 mag pickup distributor (MGB 1977+) to trigger it.
I bench tested all the used parts before installing.
I started the Alpine to find the Advance curve was WAY too wide.
I dismembered the Dist and welded up the AC limit stop.
I put it back together, only to find it was still advancing too much.
I welded it up more, and it was STILL advancing too much!!! What the HELL!!!
I gave up for the day!
One thing I was unsure about was the Dist Mag pickup polarity.
So I just wired up the Dist and expected to check it later.
In all the goings on with the Advance curve issue, I forgot the polarity check.
So today I changed the polarity and the unwanted advance curve went away.
I checked the rev limiter with a 3K chip and road tested it with a 7K chip.
Now I need to wire up, (and Mount) a new Tach.
But I'm good to go to the CAT Dyno day this Saturday.
DW
I used a Lucas 41814A 45DM4 mag pickup distributor (MGB 1977+) to trigger it.
I bench tested all the used parts before installing.
I started the Alpine to find the Advance curve was WAY too wide.
I dismembered the Dist and welded up the AC limit stop.
I put it back together, only to find it was still advancing too much.
I welded it up more, and it was STILL advancing too much!!! What the HELL!!!
I gave up for the day!
One thing I was unsure about was the Dist Mag pickup polarity.
So I just wired up the Dist and expected to check it later.
In all the goings on with the Advance curve issue, I forgot the polarity check.
So today I changed the polarity and the unwanted advance curve went away.
I checked the rev limiter with a 3K chip and road tested it with a 7K chip.
Now I need to wire up, (and Mount) a new Tach.
But I'm good to go to the CAT Dyno day this Saturday.
DW
Last edited:
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
belmateo, YUP! when I saw the timing jumping around with the Pertronix,
I would have loved going to a crank trigger....
But then I keep telling myself, VINTAGE.
Funny thing, these days, MSD IS knocking on Vintage status....
Recent Dyno stuff here:
forum.sunbeamalpine.org
DW
I would have loved going to a crank trigger....
But then I keep telling myself, VINTAGE.
Funny thing, these days, MSD IS knocking on Vintage status....
Recent Dyno stuff here:
Alpine Chassis Dyno pulls
Seeing I can't find any Chassis Dyno Threads, I'll start one. (Edit- another thread here http://forum.sunbeamalpine.org/index.php?threads/dyno-testing.13337/) And seeing the one I have handy is from a Vintage Race Alpine, I'll put it in the Racing section. BUT, I'd like to see Stock Alpine...
DW