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Weber specific Vac Unit for 25D

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
I have read on various forums about the existence of this and wanted to find out if it is really what it says on the proverbial tin and which model it is. I heard Moss may sell it but know and have found next to nothing else about it.

Is there anyone here using this that can chime in with their experiences or am I better off with the stock Vac Unit that comes with the Lucas 25D4?

Thanks in advance!

(Posted here because a Weber is a mod but if we're considering them a part of Stock now, please move this thread and accept my apologies. Thanks!)
 
Scotty,

Hope you're ready for my thoughts about this subject. If you think about it, you already have the answer.

Can you describe the different ways your engine was tuned and running when you had the throttle plate too far open causing an indicated vacuum from the ported vacuum connection, as compared to when you finally achieved the correct, lower idle speed AND no indicated vacuum at the port?

Next, the vacuum canister is designed to match the needs of the engine's ignition requirements - NOT what carb(s) are supplying F/A mixture to the engine. If the carb is the "problem," then the carb is tuned wrong.

All series Alpines and Rapiers listed in WSM 124 use the same vacuum advance curve - parts are different but tuned curves are the same. WSM 145 lists the effectively same vacuum advance curve for the 1725 Alpine. I'm sure the engineers chose the basic vac-can curve before trying to set the carbs, but there was apparently never a need found to alter the curve.

This means that all Series alloy head engines, regardless of OE carburetion, use the same planned vacuum advance curve - ALL the different engines 1500, 1600, and 1725 with Zenith D-D carbs, the Solex PAIA carbs, and the Z-S CD carbs.

Moss is selling a vacuum can as a band-aid for an improperly tuned carb, but gives no details, is more costly than other units, and the description is a bit questionable (my opinion).


Hope this helps,
 
First off, I absolutely agree with your assessment. Now let me tell you a story:

I have a Weber 32/36 DGV, base specs with the only change being the idle jets (60 and 55). 1-1/2 turns in, 1-1/2 turns out on the Mixture, idles at 850 and drives well with my main quip being how slow first gear is, but its first gear. Zero on Ported Vacuum. Beyond the exhaust having some hunting, it's a happy albeit slightly loud car.

This Weber is an original, built in Spain with all the original tags. From the 60's and one of the two that came with the engines my Alpines had. When I changed the head gasket, I had ordered a rebuild kit and figured why not just clean it, rebuild it and install it. The other developed a nasty crack in it and I'm working with a welder to try and save it.

And then we come to the Redline Weber 32/36 DGV 5A. Base specs from Redline on the Alpine. 1-1/2 in, 2 turns out and it sits steady at 5 inches on the vacuum gauge for the motor to run ok but absolutely inefficient. This is the one that choke made run better, that would occasionally cough from the Carb, etc. I figured it's the jets, let me change the idle jets one size and drive. It ran worse and stalled. No problem, I thought, tuning just means spending lots of time and lots of driving to get the condition right, no problem.

Each time I changed something, a jet, a twist of the screws, whatever, I wrote down the specs on a separate line on a sheet of lined paper to keep track. Each time, richer or leaner, the car would run oddly, and I could never, ever, get the idle speed to ported vacuum at zero without the screw being 1/2 a turn in to all the way out. The best I could get, with the motor absolutely hating life, is 1" ported vacuum with the car running at 500-600 RPM and it would drive. This became an experiment that I bought several jet kits for and went through in a process of 3-6 months. I finally decided to just rebuild the original Weber I had and the problems went away. So, is there a problem with the current base design?

And for the sake of full disclosure, I have been chasing a vacuum leak for a long while and ended up sanding the intake manifold on a wood block and painting the gaskets with blue Hylomar, which happened after swapping the Webers, but even with the slight leak ( now rectified ), the car ran infinitely better with the old Carb and the only issue I had was an occasional 100 RPM surge that annoyed me.

I recently read on other forums about the Vacuum Unit while reading up and learning more about timing and distributors and other things and was interested if this was snake oil or something that had been researched and developed by folks. I found this site, who is probably the supplier of these Vacuum Units to Moss: https://www.britishvacuumunit.com/our-products.html

For the situation I went through it made perfect sense. But the fact that folks have ran this Carb on the log manifold for decades and ran fine for the most part, didn't. Thus the question I posted.

So the idea that the problem is the Carb is bang-on. Tuning can mean a lot of things and I would think each type of Carb installed on a manifold would offer its own unique set of tuning issues. I am absolutely the farthest thing of an expert and trying to acquire some Weber guru chops, but as a control in a experiment, this Redline Weber (genuine, ordered directly from Redline) was one that I hadn't messed with but had these very problems that this Vacuum Unit is advertised as a solution for.

And since I'm sure quite a few of us are running them on a Lucas 25D, I figured this would be a good discussion. As for Moss, I get the feeling they look down on us as second-class citizens and just throw things on their site with little regard in general if you don't own a 'more popular' marque.
 
I recently read on other forums about the Vacuum Unit while reading up and learning more about timing and distributors and other things and was interested if this was snake oil or something that had been researched and developed by folks.

Quick question > Did you ever try to drive with the bad carb and your vacuum gauge hooked up so you could observe the port vacuum while driving? If so, do you recall the highest STEADY port vacuum observed?

The link you provided also offers one of these "miracle cans" with the coding in the description - 8 18 10.

This code translates to > start of advance at 8 in. Hg
..................................................> full advance by 18 in. Hg
..................................................> 10 degrees of distributor advance total (20* @ crankshaft)

Start of advance at 8 in. Hg would certainly bypass 5 in. Hg already at the port, but I have my doubts about ever seeing the 18 in. Hg reading in the ported vacuum port, except as a quick blip as the throttle is opened. If that's the case, then this "miracle can" wont add much to helping with low load ignition advance.

If your carb body is cracked, it's probably not repairable. Good luck.

Weber carbs were originally made in Bolonga, Italy - at least back to the Sixties.. Production was moved to Spain in 1992.

If your bad carb is off the engine, It would be interesting to see some pictures of the base, throttle blade, ports at the blade level, and their relationships in different blade positions. Just curious if something is obvious. Just wishing.

Some thoughts and trivia,
 
Found this video about a seemingly common issue with DGV carbs.

Will relocate to the proper thread when I find it again.

 
Quick question > Did you ever try to drive with the bad carb and your vacuum gauge hooked up so you could observe the port vacuum while driving? If so, do you recall the highest STEADY port vacuum observed?

The link you provided also offers one of these "miracle cans" with the coding in the description - 8 18 10.

This code translates to > start of advance at 8 in. Hg
..................................................> full advance by 18 in. Hg
..................................................> 10 degrees of distributor advance total (20* @ crankshaft)

Start of advance at 8 in. Hg would certainly bypass 5 in. Hg already at the port, but I have my doubts about ever seeing the 18 in. Hg reading in the ported vacuum port, except as a quick blip as the throttle is opened. If that's the case, then this "miracle can" wont add much to helping with low load ignition advance.

If your carb body is cracked, it's probably not repairable. Good luck.

Weber carbs were originally made in Bolonga, Italy - at least back to the Sixties.. Production was moved to Spain in 1992.

If your bad carb is off the engine, It would be interesting to see some pictures of the base, throttle blade, ports at the blade level, and their relationships in different blade positions. Just curious if something is obvious. Just wishing.

Some thoughts and trivia,

I'm now tempted to pull the Redline Weber out, put it on the car and drive it with a vacuum gauge on the seat. When I drove the car with that setup, the car would stall at some red lights, would lightly bog in gear and then suddenly clean up and act right. Nothing was constant. Driving it that way was a guessing game, and I love my car too much to subject it or my nerves to that. At hot idle it would sit at 5 and if I snap the throttle, it would jump to 12-15 and come back down.

Duhh. You're right, the one on the car is built in Italy, not Spain. The one I got from Redline, that I've spent months on was made in Spain, have that embedded in my head. It made me go downstairs and look at the Weber on the car. Argh. Good catch, thank you.

I have the Redline Weber in storage. When this was all going on, I was constantly pulling the Carb off the manifold and checking the idle speed screw and the throttle blade to make sure the blade was actually closed with 1-1/2 turns in and marking it on the idle speed screw. I keep thinking it has some weird sort of super small vacuum leak somewhere lower on the Carb that's messing with it. Been reading up to try to figure it out. I'll get it out this week, take pics and post them. I'd like to have it worked out so that I have a backup.

I'm very happy with what I have atm and am not interested in creating new problems from old solutions. I ran across the Vacuum Unit and was curious about it since I never heard it mentioned here (or maybe it has been, I don't know).

Just another log for our knowledge fire :).
 
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