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The Journey Begins - Series I V6 Restomod

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
Latest update....purchased headers from DanR a while back...looking good with a fresh Jet Hot Coat.

Bill, I seem to see a "big" dent in the left header #6 .

Is that for real? If so, why? Can't imagine a need for the dent/indenture in the tubing.
 

Bill Eisinger

Platinum Level Sponsor
Bill, I seem to see a "big" dent in the left header #6 .

Is that for real? If so, why? Can't imagine a need for the dent/indenture in the tubing.
To get the optimum set up for the A4LD mounting as well as the drive line angle we raised the engine an inch of so above the normal position with your engine mounts. The header ended up being way too close to the steering box so we “massaged” it a bit to gain clearance...I think the picture looks worse than it really is...if we have performance/heat issues we’ll have to go to pull the crease back out and go to Plan B but I don’t think it’s going to be an issue.
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
To get the optimum set up for the A4LD mounting as well as the drive line angle we raised the engine an inch of so above the normal position with your engine mounts. The header ended up being way too close to the steering box so we “massaged” it a bit to gain clearance...I think the picture looks worse than it really is...if we have performance/heat issues we’ll have to go to pull the crease back out and go to Plan B but I don’t think it’s going to be an issue.
Everything has a cost, doesn't it Bill? Improvement here, creates an issue there. Its a world that is hard to appreciate until you've experienced it. Win - win situations are practically nonexistent. It boils down to living with the devil you can best tolerate and the project ends up being a conglomeration of compromises.

Bill
 

Barry

Diamond Level Sponsor
To get the optimum set up for the A4LD mounting as well as the drive line angle we raised the engine an inch of so above the normal position with your engine mounts. The header ended up being way too close to the steering box so we “massaged” it a bit to gain clearance...I think the picture looks worse than it really is...if we have performance/heat issues we’ll have to go to pull the crease back out and go to Plan B but I don’t think it’s going to be an issue.




Bill,

What specific issues were helped by raising the front (?) of the engine? There has been a significant amount of interest recently in automatic transmissions for modified Alpines and others might benefit from your observations and solutions.
 

Bill Eisinger

Platinum Level Sponsor
Everything has a cost, doesn't it Bill? Improvement here, creates an issue there.
Boy, in the world of restomod’s that’s certainly true...it can be like cascading dominos.

In this case, punching the header in a bit will no doubt create a little turbulence in the exhaust flow that might reduce performance a tad but we’ll see how it shakes out on the engine dyno. I think it’s going to be pretty negligible if any...as I said above, the picture with the reflected light, etc makes it look worse than it is.
 

Bill Eisinger

Platinum Level Sponsor
Bill,

What specific issues were helped by raising the front (?) of the engine? There has been a significant amount of interest recently in automatic transmissions for modified Alpines and others might benefit from your observations and solutions.
It was really all about just getting the angle correct for the drive line, trying to get the transmission pan approximately level, and getting a transmission support bracket to fit somewhere on the car.

We started out with DanR’s transmission bracket (which is very nice piece) but we just couldn’t get things to line up....we never did figure out if there is something dimensionally unique about the particular A4LD that I’m using or perhaps the Series I cars (mine anyway) have some kind of dimensional chassis differences than later cars that have more commonly employed that transmission and DanR’s bracket. So we ended up fabbing a new support bracket which had good news/bad news (more dominos) issues but it worked out nicely. The other advantage of lifting the front of the engine a tad (along with moving it back) is we gained a little more radiator space but gained a lot of clearance to the cross member so didn’t have to worry about notching it, moving the brake line, etc. Of course one then has to worry about clearance to the hood for carb/air cleaner, etc but we’re going with the stock intake (modified) with an EFI system so we actually have more clearance than with the Offy intake setup.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
With the difficulty Bill E had with the sitting of his V6 and A4LD and modifying several routine steps in the conversion, I have given thought to perhaps utilizing the tiger transmission mount bracket I had duplicated as a means of installing the A4LD.

I am also doing an A4LD in one of my Alpines which will be bolted to a FORD V6. It has been in place with adequate spacing and positioned without question as being level or angled in such a way ythat it will not cause performance problems.

There was/is no problem with alignment of the drive shaft from the transmission to the U-joint on the rear flange. I have had to pay a lot of attention to clearances between the steering/frame/exhaust and such but all is well.

Next comes the hyd lines and shifter connections. Looking for loads of fun:)
 

Bill Eisinger

Platinum Level Sponsor
Dan- we’ll never know until someone else does an A4LD in a Series I but it’s also entirely possible that mine is a unique situation given the car(s) that we’re trying to rebuild. It probably hasn’t been all that clear on this thread but, because of the issues with my “rust free” car, we ended up taking the front clip of an S2 car and mating it with the rest of my SI. From a body perspective there’s no difference but we may have unintentionally created something on the chassis that caused the issues...but, as you say loads of fun!
 

husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
Dan- we’ll never know until someone else does an A4LD in a Series I but it’s also entirely possible that mine is a unique situation given the car(s) that we’re trying to rebuild. It probably hasn’t been all that clear on this thread but, because of the issues with my “rust free” car, we ended up taking the front clip of an S2 car and mating it with the rest of my SI. From a body perspective there’s no difference but we may have unintentionally created something on the chassis that caused the issues...but, as you say loads of fun!


The "X" frame under the early series cars is different from the later version. The intersection of the "X" is closer to the engine compartment. Series I & II cars with overdrive are required to pull the engine and gearbox as a unit to remove the gear box because the tail of the OD sits inside the "X" frame. Later series aren't restricted to this method, due the "X" frame change.

Hope this gives some insight into what you may be experiencing.

upload_2020-12-12_11-25-10.png
 

Bill Eisinger

Platinum Level Sponsor
That was exactly what we found when trying to fit the transmission....the stock transmission bracket mount holes (for which DanR's bracket is designed to fit) were a couple of inches too close to the front when trying to position the engine in the typical location described in previous V6 conversions. Thanks for that info...we had suspected there was a difference with the early cars but we couldn't figure it out. I'm positive that if I had a later series car, Dan's bracket would have worked beautifully as all of his offerings are very well engineered.

That tighter x-frame also creates a bit of an installation dilemma as well....we can't install the engine and transmission in one piece....transmission has to go in first, then the engine, then bolt them together. This isn't a big deal for me as I have a lift and, other than some unexpected mechanical issue, don't ever expect the transmission to have to come back out with the amount of miles that I anticipate will be put on this car. But others considering an A4LD in an early series car may want to think about it. Retrospectively, because we had to do so much other metal repair and modification work to the car, it would have likely been better to modify the X-frame to better accommodate engine/transmission installation but in the heat of the battle you just go with the first thing that works.

All in all, I'm very happy with how things have sorted out...the only real issue has been the clearance from the header to the steering box which is what started this phase of this conversation.
 

DanR

Diamond Level Sponsor
The "X" frame under the early series cars is different from the later version. The intersection of the "X" is closer to the engine compartment.

THANK YOU, Don for that bit of info.... Solves my question (s) as to why Bill was having such difficulty !

More questions will perhaps be answered now?
 

Bill Eisinger

Platinum Level Sponsor
Just as a follow up to this most recent conversation here's a picture taken during the engine/transmission mockup...the left side of the picture is toward the front of the car....you can see the transmission bracket bolted in place and the transmission itself a couple inches toward the back. We ended up fabbing a new bracket that we welded to the x-frame. One other thing I forgot to mention that might be helpful to others considering an A4LD in an early series car is that, the transmission pan gets in the way of the exhaust outlets in the x-frame due to the shorter distance as described by Don so we widened the front of the exhaust outlets to allow the exhaust to curve around the transmission...you can see what we did in the phot0...just another tidbit for those with early cars.20200302_143733_1583185134919.jpeg bottom1 (2).jpg
 

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Clear coat and buffing and then back to my shop for assembly!
The paint that I fogged my Alpine with called for applying the clear coat while the base coat was somewhat tacky. Is that the best practice or a labor saving practice? Will the base coat have to be prepped for the top coat?
Bill
 
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