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The Future of Gas Powered Cars for Hobbyists

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by bkasl, Feb 21, 2021.

  1. bkasl

    bkasl Bronze Level Sponsor

    Big push for years’ on weaning cars off of standard gasoline and movement towards hybrid, all electric,etc.
    That said, what is the future of classic car owners who own cars like Sunbeams as a hobby?
    Not sure when, but gasoline as we know it will eventually be in less demand thus increasing cost per gallon.
    Will classic values go up or down?
     
  2. puff4

    puff4 Diamond Level Sponsor

    It depends, IMHO. The low end classics (like Sunbeam Alpines) will suffer badly. However the very high end cars will retain their value, because the very rich will always be able to afford the hobby.
     
  3. 65sunbeam

    65sunbeam SAOCA Membership Director Diamond Level Sponsor

    As few miles as I get to put on my cars, fuel price does not enter the picture. I took a nice drive today and filled up with ethanol free premium which keeps it happy. The car is paid for and I won't be selling it so any future value does not matter to me. They will have to pry my cold fingers off the steering wheel.....
     
    Paul A, John W and phyrman like this.
  4. Alpine 1789

    Alpine 1789 SAOCA President Diamond Level Sponsor

    I look at it this way: In the not too distant future, most cars on the road will be self-driving and they will be programmed to avoid cars like ours. Think of how much fun it will be to drive knowing everyone has to get our of our way! ;)

    Of course, I have also read the prediction that non self-driving cars will ultimately be restricted to special roads and tracks. Probably because of jerks like me who take advantage of the other cars' AI.
     
  5. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    I agree that cost per gallon on cars not generally driven many miles is the least of the worry. I think in the long term, the beginning of the banning of gasoline powered vehicles may be a concern. By long term, I mean probably after most current Sunbeam owners are beyond their driving days. A bigger concern in the near term is what looks like a lack of young people taking up interest in collector cars for driving... as opposed to investing.

    In the 1960s my mother told an older brother of mine that by the time he gets to driving age they will be moving around in craft like they used in the Jetsons. So perhaps things won't move as fast as we might fear.

    Rick
     
    dansun22 and John W like this.
  6. Warren

    Warren Bronze Level Sponsor

    Interesting comments...
    Can someone explain the big bucks on old VW's and Porsche's. The super nice bugs are in the 20 to 30 range and the Porches are still stupid money, as are a lot of cars.
     
  7. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    I can't see gasoline powered cars will ever being banned by state or federal governments. The manufacture of petro powered vehicles might be banned. But regardless, when the tipping point in favor of EV's arrives, the process will resemble the take over of of the television market by the solid state flat panel tv. Remember how quickly that went? Nobody banned anything, but the picture tube disappeared quicker than the dinosaurs. But gasoline and diesel fuel and ancillary products will be around a long time to service the vast fleet of high dollar, special use, long lived commercial and agricultural equipment.

    Gasoline cost? Depends on how the market shakes out. There will be a declining market with a loss of high volume marketing efficiency driving prices up, being fueled with a glut of product, forcing wholesale prices down. Which will win? Long term, marketing cost. Don't believe me, remember how expensive kerosene was back when there was one small refiner in Pennsylvania, serving the local Amish market?

    Bill
     
    Paul A likes this.
  8. John W

    John W Diamond Level Sponsor

    During the wacko gas shortage of the early 70's, my dad outfitted a van with 55 gallon drums. Years later, every time I mentioned that, he'd look at me like he wished I'd forget about that van.
     
    dansun22 likes this.
  9. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    During that time I bought a large auxiliary fuel tank from J.C.Whitney for my full-size Dodge van/conversion camper. Thought I might need it for long-distance road trips. Never installed it. Still have it!
     
  10. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    My $.02

    This subject has been on my radar screen for some time.

    Based on recent past auto trends, I postulated we may have around 20 years beyond

    the point when EVs are the cheapest/only vehicles available,

    to enjoy our toys.

    This guess is mostly based on the life span of cars of today.

    ...of course, subject to revision, mostly by political power and/or actions (or lack there of) of the Drivers.

    What you " buy" WILL determine the future.
     
  11. sunalp

    sunalp Platinum Level Sponsor

    Just sitting at a stop light the other day and thinking about this topic, I noticed the number of UPS vans
    passing me on the start of their daily routes. I think most have been converted (or are) diesels, but there
    still are some gas ones out there. Just the sheer number of them, must have been 20 that passed me, and
    this is only one small area of the country, started me thinking. How many UPS vans are in the national
    fleet? Gotta be a lot! How we can think that these vehicles that travel hundreds of miles a day can be replaced by EV's
    in 9 years is unthinkable.

    That and consider the guy that just paid $60K for that new pick up. Somehow he probably won't even have it paid off
    by then.

    I do think that there are young people interested in our cars, and other "vintage" cars.It's imbedded in our psyche
    and culture and don't think it's going away anytime soon.

    Just my two cents.

    Cheers!
    Steve
     
  12. Toyanvil

    Toyanvil Gold Level Sponsor

    Here in Bakersfield UPS tried EV trucks and it failed in 6 months, the battery life became shorter and shorter. It got to the point the drivers had to trade out for gas powered trucks at lunch. The sad thing is, gas cars are cleaner then EVs over the life of the car and will not help the world.
     
    Warren, Tom H and phyrman like this.
  13. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Perhaps for the current crop of plug-in EV cars.
    The hydrogen cars will be game chamgers on the re-charge front in that you can stop and refill the same way/speed as petrol.

    What i dont get with hybrid cars is the model they use... The Fisker was the only one that made sense to me working like a diesel electric train.. The petrol motor charged the battery and the electirc motor drove the wheels... So you could run the combustion engine at a constant rpm to charge when needed and the electic motor did the drive.. You stop and refill fuel when your onbaord charging station runs low on fuel... Super efficent.. Used current fuel supply... Solved range and charge speed issues.

    That said as impressive as the performance of some EV sports cars I've been in are.. The Porsche and also a Neo... The engine sound.. Vibration amd the interaction is something that just appeals to me... But maybe that's because its what i know and associate with performance...

    I love manual cars.. Love to heel and toe... But a dual clutch will outperform the best manual and can simulate the double clutching... But i still dont want one... And im in the minority...

    I hope we can keep a viable fuel for classics.. Theres always vodka and tequlia... Baijou... Maybe we will live the Simpson's dream... At the service station... One for the car.... One for me...
     
  14. Mike O'D

    Mike O'D Gold Level Sponsor

    I'm involved in several hydrogen projects at work. This is what I can tell you with certainty - It takes a lot of energy to get hydrogen, no matter how you do it. You only get a percentage back when you burn it or put it through a fuel cell. Sounds great if you don't know the science, but it makes no sense in reality. Every time you convert one form of energy to another, there are losses. It's an unnecessary step that wastes energy. Use the energy to do something directly.
     
  15. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    Battery powered delivery trucks make a lot sense as they do not travel hundreds of miles a day. My son does delivery for FedEx. For a while he was servicing a rural route with few deliveries, that extended 30 miles from the station. Truly a high mileage route. He usually logged just over 100 miles, well within the range of today's batteries. A few years ago I had a conversation with our rural route delivery man about electric cars. His route is 50 miles. Another market is school buses. Not only do they do short routes with lots of stops, their work day is done in two shifts with opportunity for recharge before doing the evening run.

    Bill
     
  16. Toyanvil

    Toyanvil Gold Level Sponsor

    Here in Bakersfield all the UPS routes were less then 50 miles on all flat ground and it still did not work and UPS lost $300,000 on EVs.
    P.S. we don't even have cool days that battery's don't like.
     
  17. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    Suggestion to UPS for efficient fleet vehicles and viability for our cars in the future.

    Rick

    ups alpine.jpg
     
  18. jdoclogan

    jdoclogan Platinum Level Sponsor

    As a Professor my research focused on "Organizational Change." What I anecdotally found was a concept I refer to as "Mortality Quotient." I defined the phrase as: It takes approximately 50+ years for systemic conditions to change as a result of the prevailing population dying, embracing the change, or adapting to the new order. My prediction: The introduction of any alternative energy sources for independent transportation vehicles will include a long term (50+ years from 2021) transformation from the dominant fossil fuel energy source. I agree with Jim, the higher cost of fossil fuel won't stop the collector automobile hobby. There are too many cars that appeal to a large portion of society and they will still be utilized on today's highways. As for my generation the metamorphosis will still be occurring by the time I decide my driving is not in anyone's best interest (note: my former father-in-law, at 98, just decided to stop driving).

    I have been enthused about the development of an electric/alternate to fossil fuel vehicle since High School (50+ years). But, I only achieved converting a Honda 55 trail bike into an electric vehicle. I quickly learned the battery was [and is] the stumbling block. Current and future batteries have many strands of impact on the environment and electrical energy requirements. My interest was restarted in the 1980s when GM sponsored solar car races in Australia and locations where there were above average solar days (not practical for the most populated areas in the World). It appears that the Hydrogen car is a viable resolution if all safety issues and high energy production costs can be overcome. During and after my time as a nuclear reactor operator I thought fission was the answer. Bad idea, too much negative impacting waste product via that method along with the heavy lead shield to protect occupants from onboard radiation being emitted. Fusion becomes my number one solution for an energy source. It is the fusing of two nuclei into one particle defying the conservation of matter by turning some of the matter into usable energy. Fusion provides far more energy released than the large amount of energy required to fuse the two nuclei together. Two hydrogen atoms fused would produce one helium atom, an inert gas (the whole experience [tongue in cheek] could be uplifting). No matter which direction alternative automobile energy solutions take I will continue to enjoy the exhilaration while driving any one of my Sunbeams until I'm 98 ... 100...
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
    Toyanvil likes this.
  19. bulldurham

    bulldurham Platinum Level Sponsor

    When and if the solid state battery is perfected, and it probably will be, range will not be an issue for most vehicles.
    Still, I agree that it will not be a green resource except in name; making energy and disposing of it's remains is a dirty process.
     
  20. Aladin Sane

    Aladin Sane Gold Level Sponsor

    I worked for the department of energy back in the 90s. I did a lot of work with hydrogen. There are so many problems with using hydrogen to power a vehicle. The energy density is super low. The need to compress is a fairly high pressure, combined with physics quirk of hydrogen that unlike other gases that it heats up when it expands means that a leak of your hydrogen tank can self ignite make that a nonstarter for me.
     

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