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SV V6 Restoration
- Thread starter Beamin
- Start date
And now on to the next item on the list….the clutch.
I drove this project briefly when first acquired several years ago and the clutch was very “aggressive” for lack of a better word. Shifted smoothly and all, but when starting from a dead stop, the clutch would grab hard at the slightest release of the clutch pedal, which led me to believe that it has some sort of racing clutch installed. What I didn’t do prior to disassembling everything is check to see if maybe limited travel of the slave cylinder was the source of the problem. However, it seems like if that were the case, I might have heard some grinding of gears when shifting, but there wasn’t.
I pulled the clutch off this morning and honestly, it looks pretty standard. There are a couple part numbers, but the folks at Phoenix Friction couldn’t find anything based on the numbers. They have the 07-008 kit in stock which is their standard street kit, but I’d rather not purchase something if it’s basically identical to what is sitting on my work bench right now.
So my question to the group is can anyone tell me if this is a standard street clutch or is it indeed a racing clutch? The last pic has a closeup of the part numbers on the cover plate, but I haven’t been able to find anything on the web that tells me about it.
I drove this project briefly when first acquired several years ago and the clutch was very “aggressive” for lack of a better word. Shifted smoothly and all, but when starting from a dead stop, the clutch would grab hard at the slightest release of the clutch pedal, which led me to believe that it has some sort of racing clutch installed. What I didn’t do prior to disassembling everything is check to see if maybe limited travel of the slave cylinder was the source of the problem. However, it seems like if that were the case, I might have heard some grinding of gears when shifting, but there wasn’t.
I pulled the clutch off this morning and honestly, it looks pretty standard. There are a couple part numbers, but the folks at Phoenix Friction couldn’t find anything based on the numbers. They have the 07-008 kit in stock which is their standard street kit, but I’d rather not purchase something if it’s basically identical to what is sitting on my work bench right now.
So my question to the group is can anyone tell me if this is a standard street clutch or is it indeed a racing clutch? The last pic has a closeup of the part numbers on the cover plate, but I haven’t been able to find anything on the web that tells me about it.
Barry
Diamond Level Sponsor
The pictures you posted appear to show a typical diaphragm style OEM or aftermarket "street" clutch cover and clutch disc.
D4ZA in the part number decodes as 1974 / Mustang / chassis which is logical.
A Google search for the full "D4ZA7563AB" part number stamped on the outside of the clutch cover leads to:
LuK / Schaeffler supplied both OEM and aftermarket clutch parts.
The "aggressive" engagement at the "slightest release of the clutch pedal" sounds like a function of the where the clutch engages in the clutch pedal movement (too low) rather than the parts (clutch cover and clutch disc).
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Yes. A high friction flywheel or pressure plate can cause a grabby clutch. Done been there, done that.
Bill
DanR
Diamond Level Sponsor
Yep ! Take a good look at the pressure plate, it has definitely been heated up.....lots of dust from burning the clutch disc ....
Thanks for the guidance, folks. So in summary:
It’s a standard street clutch and I need to look elsewhere for the source of the hard starts. Perhaps the overall throw of the slave cylinder needs adjusting or too much friction on the flywheel or pressure plate. Check.
The pressure plate has been abused a bit and might be part of the problem. Got it. So I did a little gentle polishing and it cleaned up fairly well. One minor groove. Now the dilema is does this look good enough to reinstall, or should I just bite the bullet and drop the $320 for a new clutch kit? I hate spending money on something unnecessary, but I also hate redoing things, and pulling the motor to install a new clutch soon after it get this back on the road is a big redo.
Decisions….decisions….
It’s a standard street clutch and I need to look elsewhere for the source of the hard starts. Perhaps the overall throw of the slave cylinder needs adjusting or too much friction on the flywheel or pressure plate. Check.
The pressure plate has been abused a bit and might be part of the problem. Got it. So I did a little gentle polishing and it cleaned up fairly well. One minor groove. Now the dilema is does this look good enough to reinstall, or should I just bite the bullet and drop the $320 for a new clutch kit? I hate spending money on something unnecessary, but I also hate redoing things, and pulling the motor to install a new clutch soon after it get this back on the road is a big redo.
Decisions….decisions….
MikeH
Diamond Level Sponsor
If the pressure plate is showing hot spots, then chances are the flywheel would have some as well. This would cause the “grabbing” and probably some clutch chatter. If this is the case, it would be wise to have both resurfaced. That is if the pressure plate is good. You also need to check the condition of the clutch disk.
husky drvr
Platinum Level Sponsor
Andy,
If you look at the wear on the spring fingers, it appears the release bearing is not engaging the fingers evenly. That might be due to lighting in the pictures. If not lighting, then uneven finger height is, IIRC, a symptom of a broken diaphragm spring. It might be a good idea to contact a clutch rebuilding firm, maybe a local speed shop, for their insight on your dilemma.
Just a thought,
If you look at the wear on the spring fingers, it appears the release bearing is not engaging the fingers evenly. That might be due to lighting in the pictures. If not lighting, then uneven finger height is, IIRC, a symptom of a broken diaphragm spring. It might be a good idea to contact a clutch rebuilding firm, maybe a local speed shop, for their insight on your dilemma.
Just a thought,
I tried polishing with steel wool initially. It cleaned things up, but did nothing for the deep scratches and pitting, so I went the sandpaper route. The first few swipes with 150g were gut wrenching, but did get me down to smooth metal. Then it was a long process working all the way up to 1500g, following by the same compounding and polishing fluids I used on the paint. Couldn’t be happier with the results now. The pictures are before and after, and the after picture doesn’t really do it justice.
One question I have - should I go over the stainless parts with wax or some sort of clear coat, or would that cause other problems?
One question I have - should I go over the stainless parts with wax or some sort of clear coat, or would that cause other problems?
sunalp
Diamond Level Sponsor
You should use something like a Mothers metal polish or Simichrome. Clear coating can change the look of polished parts.
Eastwood used to sell a clear that didn't do that but haven't seen it in years.
I was underneath the car this morning attaching the drive shaft and noticed it is not centered in the tunnel, which led me to investigate further. Sure enough, it would seem that the whole rear end is shifted about 3/16” off center from the body. This measurement was determined by laying a straight edge vertically across the center of the rear wheels and measuring how far inside the fender lip the straight edge was.
Is this normal? Should I try to correct it? And just how would one go about correcting it? The entire rear suspension was completely rebuilt, so I guess I could loosen everything up, set the car back down on the ground and give a couple really big shoves to the body to see if things might shift a bit, but maybe it’s not that big of a deal???
Is this normal? Should I try to correct it? And just how would one go about correcting it? The entire rear suspension was completely rebuilt, so I guess I could loosen everything up, set the car back down on the ground and give a couple really big shoves to the body to see if things might shift a bit, but maybe it’s not that big of a deal???
Barry
Diamond Level Sponsor
Series Alpines are notorious for being "dimensionally variable." If you put your rear axle under a different Series Alpine, the wheels might be centered or even offset the opposite direction. The "technically proper" way to correct the wheel position error would be to relocate the spring perches on the axle housing, but that would be a lot of work to correct a small problem. The practical way to fix the problem is to use a 1/8" wheel shim such as
on the side with the greater fender clearance and call it good.
The transmission tunnel in a Series Alpine is narrow and having the driveshaft centered in the tunnel is desirable, but driveshaft offset is not a problem unless the driveshaft rubs on the tunnel as the suspension travels. Most axle housings have an offset pinion and the only way to center the pinion shaft is to shorten one side more than the other when the axle housing is narrowed.
on the side with the greater fender clearance and call it good.
The transmission tunnel in a Series Alpine is narrow and having the driveshaft centered in the tunnel is desirable, but driveshaft offset is not a problem unless the driveshaft rubs on the tunnel as the suspension travels. Most axle housings have an offset pinion and the only way to center the pinion shaft is to shorten one side more than the other when the axle housing is narrowed.
bulldurham
Platinum Level Sponsor
In reading about your clutch problems I remembered Jose's comments about the v6 clutch and possibility of overextending the clutch throw.
He recommended using a clutch stop to prevent collapsing the fingers on the pressure plate. My v6 uses the Wilwood pull style slave and has a hard pedal;
during summer driving when traffic is stop and go and things heat up the release point gets pretty close to the floor. Not sure if that is a hot fluid issue or
the fingers not doing their best work. I would compare the new and old units in terms of finger location , measuring from the face of the pressure plate.
If your old one has collapsed fingers, consider a clutch throw stop on your pedal.
He recommended using a clutch stop to prevent collapsing the fingers on the pressure plate. My v6 uses the Wilwood pull style slave and has a hard pedal;
during summer driving when traffic is stop and go and things heat up the release point gets pretty close to the floor. Not sure if that is a hot fluid issue or
the fingers not doing their best work. I would compare the new and old units in terms of finger location , measuring from the face of the pressure plate.
If your old one has collapsed fingers, consider a clutch throw stop on your pedal.
My 2 cents worth is that a pedal stop is stop-gap measure that hides a larger problem of a hydraulic mismatch in the pedal system. The correct measure is to install a smaller master cylinder or a larger slave. You not only solve the problem, you gain proper clutch engagement and an easier pedal.
Bill
Bill
Thanks, Barry. My suspicion was that there was enough slop in the various tolerances that to expect everything to come together perfectly aligned might have been overly optimistic. Leaving everything as as, there is more than enough clearance for the drive shaft to move up and down in the tunnel, so no issue there. The spacers would seem like an easy fix, but I’d need to shim out a total of 3/8” on one side to get things even, which would most likely dictate needing longer wheel studs, which would in turn require pulling the hub, and yada yada yada. If I leave as is, will driveability be effected much? Not building a race car, just a solid daily driver for my wife.
I agree, Bill. While the engine/transmission were out of the car, I mated them up and took some measurements on how much travel was needed on the throw out bearing lever arm to completely disengage the clutch. I’ll look for a slave in the Goldilocks zone based on those measurements.
Barry
Diamond Level Sponsor
Andy,
Noted that the rear axle housing is 3/16" off-center and that it would take a 3/8" spacer on the short side to correct the side-to-side wheel location difference. I suspect that you could use a 1/4" spacer without having to install longer studs.
You may be able to see the 3/8" difference, but I can't imagine that it would have any noticeable effect on driveability for a daily driver.