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Starter issues.

P

Paul67

Silver Level Sponsor
Well, I let the old girl sit for a while (SV).
Now when I turn the key or jump the solenoid all I hear
is a muffled clunk from the starter. It is trying to engage but it's not happening.

I have turned the shaft with a 10mm wrench. It is incredibly difficult to reach and
get a good grip as the car is on the ground and I'm coming in from above.
Having said that there seems to be little to no resistance on the 1/4 turn I've managed to achieve.

I'm wondering if they have a slack or play and I'm just not actually turning the shaft?
Supposing that I am though, what should be my next step?

Thanks!
 
I think so. I put a 10mm socket on it and the shaft turns freely.
So bad brushes most likely and a whack or two required??
 
hartmandm said:
Are you monitoring the voltage at the starter when engaging the starter?
Click to expand...
I didn't even think about posting this. I had a stall and when I tried to start the car the battery cooked both the starter and the battery in damn near seconds. Mine was from a melted section of wire that contributed to a short caused by the exhaust manifold coming in contact with it. Be careful!
 
hartmandm said:
Are you monitoring the voltage at the starter when engaging the starter?
Click to expand...
Can you explain why this would be significant? and also what might be wrong to cause it? I am on my own and
cannot do that. But if there is something that needs replacing that I can do. And if it fixes it then good. If not, no harm done.
In other words, instead of me running a diagnostic which I cannot do, please tell me the fix if that is the issue. Thanks!
 
Last edited:
I removed the large black wire connected to the starter as suggested. Cleaned all of the surfaces.
Installed another known good fully charged battery. Cleaned all of the connectors on the solenoid.
Removed and cleaned mounting screws.

I got about a second and a half of very, very slow turn of the starter. Certainly, no cranking.
Just a momentary very slow turn. It may have moved the pistons a touch perhaps.
Then next turn of the key I'm back to just clicking again.
 
(Are you monitoring the voltage at the starter when engaging the starter? )
Paul67 said:
Can you explain why this would be significant? and also what might be wrong to cause it?
Click to expand...
The idea is to test the battery with a load (the load is the starter). If one has a multi-meter, clip the leads to anywhere on the battery cable positive lead and body ground and start measuring voltage as one cranks the starter. If the voltage drops significantly, it's probably the battery.
And if the voltage hasn't drop much...could be the starter and/or resistance in the cables & body ground.
Jan
 
Last edited:
Either your starter motor is buggered or your engine is hydrolocked.

Pulling the spark plugs and trying to start would answer the second issue.
Be prepared for a spray of coolant from one of the holes.

How long did it sit?
 
Double check the engine ground strap while you are debugging this issue. You can measure the resistance between the engine and the chassis as a test. I believe the resistance should be less than an ohm. Maybe someone has checked their vehicle and knows what a good number should be.
 
Ok so I'm about to pack it in for the night as I'm losing daylight.
Pulled the plugs. No difference. So not hydro locked.
Still nothing except the same dull clunck at the starter.

I do have a question though.
Before I say this, I will tell you that the car was running and the lights worked when parked.

My lights do not work. The wiper, blower and turn signals only work when the
ignition switch is fully twisted start position. Releasing the key to any other position
and everything stops working.

I'm pretty sure you should be able to run the wipers and turn on the lights etc
without the car running. With this in mind I replaced my newer ignition switch with the original
and got the same results. ( position 1 - battery brown. 2- ignition white 3 white and red - start).

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone??
 
Paul67 said:
Ok so I'm about to pack it in for the night as I'm losing daylight.
Pulled the plugs. No difference. So not hydro locked.
Still nothing except the same dull clunck at the starter.

I do have a question though.
Before I say this, I will tell you that the car was running and the lights worked when parked.

My lights do not work. The wiper, blower and turn signals only work when the
ignition switch is fully twisted start position. Releasing the key to any other position
and everything stops working.

I'm pretty sure you should be able to run the wipers and turn on the lights etc
without the car running. With this in mind I replaced my newer ignition switch with the original
and got the same results. ( position 1 - battery brown. 2- ignition white 3 white and red - start).

I don't know if this makes sense to anyone??
Click to expand...
Maybe check your fuses?
 
Keep in mind the starter pinion should only engage the flywheel if the starter experiences a high rotational acceleration so the inertia drive can move the starter pinion into mesh with the ring gear. No rapid start = no gear mesh. If your pinion is in constant mesh, that's a problem. If your pinion is not locked into the ring gear AND the starter is difficult to turn by hand, that would seem to be a bearing or bushing problem.

If you'll notice the "voltage drop" test suggested in the WSM has a max limit of 0.5 volt drop in the entire high amp starter circuit when turning the engine over. IMHO, I doubt any Alpine with original cables would pass that test today. I'm sure an Alpine with original cables that lives in a salt-air environment would fail that test.

Just a few thoughts,

~


~

Starter testing as suggested by WSM 145

Reasons for and results are discussed.


1735942220280.png
1735942326357.png
 
husky drvr said:
Keep in mind the starter pinion should only engage the flywheel if the starter experiences a high rotational acceleration so the inertia drive can move the starter pinion into mesh with the ring gear. No rapid start = no gear mesh. If your pinion is in constant mesh, that's a problem. If your pinion is not locked into the ring gear AND the starter is difficult to turn by hand, that would seem to be a bearing or bushing problem.

If you'll notice the "voltage drop" test suggested in the WSM has a max limit of 0.5 volt drop in the entire high amp starter circuit when turning the engine over. IMHO, I doubt any Alpine with original cables would pass that test today. I'm sure an Alpine with original cables that lives in a salt-air environment would fail that test.

Just a few thoughts,

~


~

Starter testing as suggested by WSM 145

Reasons for and results are discussed.


View attachment 33942
View attachment 33943
Click to expand...
 
Paul67 said:
fuses are good
Click to expand...
Is the car somehow stuck in gear? A clunk means it's getting power but not strong enough to turn anything? I mean you got other clues too. Dead battery? Battery wire somehow not 'connecting' from the battery like it should? Both ignition switches maybe bad?

Just... Bizarre.
 
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