Series II - Oil Pump (rebuild)

[1962300]

I am rebuilding my motor.
In doing so, I aim to rebuild all other aspects of the motor; like the Oil Pump.
I bought a new Shaft, Vane & Rotor..

And then I went to replace them in my pump....
- How does one remove the 2 Pins that hold the bottom portion of the Shaft?
- Do I need to be concerned about the gap near the Gear (that meets the Cam Gear)? There seems to be some up & down movement of that Shaft & need to understand if that gap has relevance IF I replace this stuff.

The Pins seems to be SO difficult to remove, I may not go through this all.
And the new Shaft doesn't have the Pin holes pre-drilled; so yay.
I wonder how worn my old pump really is, now that I see its simplicity.

Thanks

 

[alpine_64]

I am rebuilding my motor.
In doing so, I aim to rebuild all other aspects of the motor; like the Oil Pump.
I bought a new Shaft, Vane & Rotor..

And then I went to replace them in my pump....
- How does one remove the 2 Pins that hold the bottom portion of the Shaft?
- Do I need to be concerned about the gap near the Gear (that meets the Cam Gear)? There seems to be some up & down movement of that Shaft & need to understand if that gap has relevance IF I replace this stuff.

The Pins seems to be SO difficult to remove, I may not go through this all.
And the new Shaft doesn't have the Pin holes pre-drilled; so yay.
I wonder how worn my old pump really is, now that I see its simplicity.

Thanks

The pumps do wear . And LOP (low oil pressure) is the biggest killer of rootes engines.

Not sure what rebuild kit you got.. but the earlier pump has a bit less flow and pressure... You can modify a later 5 main pump to fit the earlier cars... Which is a good modification..you need to step the metal feed pipes and swap the pickup over and also modify the sump baffle to clear it.

 

[Scotty]

The pumps do wear . And LOP (low oil pressure) is the biggest killer of rootes engines.

Not sure what rebuild kit you got.. but the earlier pump has a bit less flow and pressure... You can modify a later 5 main pump to fit the earlier cars... Which is a good modification..you need to step the metal feed pipes and swap the pickup over and also modify the sump baffle to clear it.

Do you know happen to know what the operating/max psi's are for both pumps? Been curious about this.

 

[bernd_st]

- How does one remove the 2 Pins that hold the bottom portion of the Shaft?
- Do I need to be concerned about the gap near the Gear (that meets the Cam Gear)? There seems to be some up & down movement of that Shaft & need to understand if that gap has relevance IF I replace this stuff.

Answers as follows:
- I would start grinding off the heads and try to hammer them out using a suitable drift. However as you say they are really difficult to remove. If they absolutely don't move you may try to bore them out. The old shaft can be scrapped anyway.
- Some limited shaft up and down movement of the shaft is neccessary. Nothing mentioned in the WSM, but would take a reference measurement with a feeler gauge before dissasembling the old shaft/drive gear.

The new shaft needs to be crossdrilled. Make markings following the original holes once you have located the drive gear in the proper position...

 

[junkman]

The workshop manual has the measurements needed to check the wear on your old pump. Sometimes you can resurface the bottom plate and gain oil pressure. I just went through this last year, I did, (with the help of a friend with a Bridgeport) install a new shaft and rotor. Drilling the new shaft is not for the faint of heart, but is certainly doable. One hole came out perfect and lined up exactly, the other was off by a scosch but still allowed pin placement. My pump wasn't that bad to start with, I just figured since I had the parts what the heck.

 

[bernd_st]

There is a nice video on Youtube showing how to actually measure the gaps on the early oilpump:

There might be an easier way instead of removing the old drive gear securing rivets. Perhaps you can just run a bridgeport or a drill right down through the drive gear hole from the underside. This scraps the shaft, but it's going to be replaced anyway. When reinstalling the gear on the new shaft you may crossdrill on entirely new positions and use simple split pins for reinstallation. This ensures proper hole lineup. I have a 1725cc pump here where this modification was actually executed. It ran 1000s of miles w/o any problem :

 

[1962300]

Thanks for the info. everyone!
It all helps!

ANOTHER QUESTION - The workshop manual reads this....

Oil Pump Intake Filter - To Clean
Remove spring clip from oil pump shroud and withdraw gauze.

There was nothing behind the screen on the pump, when I disassembled the engine.
Is there really supposed to be something under the screen?

 

[Scotty]

Thanks for the info. everyone!
It all helps!

ANOTHER QUESTION - The workshop manual reads this....

Oil Pump Intake Filter - To Clean
Remove spring clip from oil pump shroud and withdraw gauze.

There was nothing behind the screen on the pump, when I disassembled the engine.
Is there really supposed to be something under the screen?

I think the mesh screen is the gauze (metal gauze) in the description, but I might be wrong.

 

[bernd_st]

Yes it is. There is nothing else than just a wire mesh being held by steel spring clip to avoid unwanted particles being sucked into the oil pump...

 

[Tim R]

Make sure that you have the correct parts for your oil pump. I have seen bits advertised as "for 1592cc Rootes engines" but the oil pumps are different. I am currently running a Series II oil pump in a Series IV. The Series II pump is about 5mm longer than the Series IV. Everything connects correctly at the bottom of the engine but the extra length makes the distributor sit too high to clamp on to the pedestal. I made up a 5mm spacer plate and raised the pedestal but was previously unaware that there are differences.
Tim R

 

[alpine_64]

I would personally recommend going to the later 5 main pump . A few nods yes...but... The 3 main pumps arf hard to come by and not manufactured that often

The 1725 pumps seem to be reproduced more often ( note... Check them carefully.. when I was doing the swap I had 2 badly mfg one that werent within tolerance)
If keeping the stock 3 main pump you can modify to run MGA drive gears to increase flow.

Low oil psi does kill these engines... So the better the system the longer it will last.

 

[Tim R]

Alpine_64,
Can an oil pump for a five bearing crank shaft 1725cc car be modified to fit the earlier three bearing 1592 engines? The lower parts of the pump, connections etc are completely different but if it is possible too modify them it would make life a lot easier.
Tim R

 

[alpine_64]

Alpine_64,
Can an oil pump for a five bearing crank shaft 1725cc car be modified to fit the earlier three bearing 1592 engines? The lower parts of the pump, connections etc are completely different but if it is possible too modify them it would make life a lot easier.
Tim R

Yes Tim.. been done many times... And as I said above a few mods, have to relieve the sump baffle a little and step the pickup pipes and use the other pickup. Swap the drive gear.

I did it on my series I motor back in 2010

 

[Alpine 1789]

Yes Tim.. been done many times... And as I said above a few mods, have to relieve the sump baffle a little and step the pickup pipes and use the other pickup. Swap the drive gear.

Do you know if anyone has written up the details? If not, it would be nice to have for posterity.

 

[alpine_64]

Do you know if anyone has written up the details? If not, it would be nice to have for posterity.

Jim, years ago when my webshots was still active I did a detail of it with photos... It was in my alpine resurrection thread in the older forum...along with the flywheel mods and throwout bearing issues.

The writeup would be there but photos no longer...