1. Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

    Dismiss Notice

Series 5 Heater water valve

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by John G, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Any conclusion on the ability to restore a proper seal to the end where the plate attaches?

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  2. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    I would say that after looking at the innards that there are two problems. The first being that the seal to allow the water to flow won't seal due to corrosion of the aluminum housing. Probably due to coolant issues. The second problem is the seal around the shaft that moves to open or close the bottom seal. As you can see the seal is what could be called a grommet that looks like a bellows and rust or corrosion of the shaft could cause it to leak. If you were to find a seal that fits and the shaft is not clean and has pits from rust the chances are that it wouldn't seal any length of time.
     
  3. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Does it look like the center of the outer rubber seal is supposed to be in a fixed position on the shaft?

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  4. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    Mike ,
    The seal did push over the round tab on the shaft and set in a slot much like hydraulic seals in the master cylinders. It appears that the part I would refer to as the bellows pointed down into the cylinder. If you look close you can see under the round tab the remains of the seal that separated from the rest of the seal. As the rubber dried out and became brittle it looks like the seal comes apart. There is another rubber seal that sets against the yoke that holds things in place. Do the reproduction valves have a slot to secure the seal or do they rely on the rubber sealing around the shaft? 110_1106.JPG
     
  5. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    Photos of a taken apart newer valve below.

    Rick

    P1130460r.JPG P1130465r.jpg P1130503r.jpg
     
  6. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

  7. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    This was a series 5 valve purchased on the internet that is identical to the one I later bought from Classic Sunbeam. This one had it's end blow off. The Classic Sunbeam one leaks out the end push rod hole.

    Rick
     
  8. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    The reason I asked is that it looks to have the tube placed in the opening when they modified the MG valve. I have one of Classic's and it is a modified MG. The one on this car is an original with the hose connections being part of the casting. One of the hoses is positioned in a different location on valves being sold today. 100_0549.JPG
     
  9. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    When mine failed I took it to pieces and the main rubber seal had split. I went to the local plumbers shop and the guy told me that his late father had a tin of old bits that he kept out the back from the 1960s. He opened the box and there was an identical seal there in perfect condition! It cost me just a few pence and the valve has been perfect ever since. Sometimes you just get lucky!

    Tim R
     
  10. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Tim R,

    What did you do with the deformed tabs that attach the end plate during disassembly & assembly? Were you able to straighten them for disassembly and then deform them again after assembly?

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  11. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Thanks Bob.
     
  12. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    Tim,

    Way up earlier in the topic I showed what I did to reattach the end on a repaired valve. In fact the repair was fixing a blown off end. I was not able to get the end to hold on using the existing tabs, which are the result of a stamping/punching tool I assume. I also wanted to experiment with the concept of a "serviceable" valve.

    Rick
     
  13. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    A photo of series 5 heater valves with the one on the left being the modified MG valve and on the right is an original Alpine valve. notice the difference in the position of the one water tube. 110_1129.JPG
     
  14. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    Ahh yes. I wondered why they didn't make that side pipe cast in. Didn't know it was an MG modified.

    Rick
     
  15. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Bob,

    That valve on the left is an odd orientation. I haven't seen that before. Here's a picture of the Ashley Hinton valve, which I assume folks are modifying to make the series 5 valve. I thought this Ashley Hinton valve was for the MG.

    upload_2020-4-2_21-30-58.png

    The valves from Classic Sunbeam, Moss Motors, and Alpine Innovations look like the valve on the left:

    upload_2020-4-2_21-32-19.png

    Mike
     
  16. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    Correct. With the lip on the side pipe. I didn't notice that in Bob's photo the pressed/bonded in side pipe is straight. While I've not experienced the issue, some have said that pipe can separate from the casting.

    Rick
     
  17. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    That happened to one of my valves.
     
  18. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    The valve you're talking about is from Moss. I bought a couple a few years ago. It's an MGC valve. There were two styles used. I also have a couple of these that I've bought at the Carlisle Import over the years. It's different because I cut it myself and used the epoxy that body shops use to glue the aluminum tube into the housing. The tubing I used is a snug fit that I had turned down for this particular use. If you look back to page one of this thread you'll find I also have a couple of the Ashley Hinton valves. FYI, I've never had a heater valve leak on any of the Alpines. The coolant must be maintained to prevent corrosion and other associated problems and use a premixed 50/50 blend of ethylene glycol and never add tap water. If top off is needed use the preblended coolant.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2020
  19. Tim R

    Tim R Silver Level Sponsor

    There is quite a popular solution that is used in the UK involving the use of two large washers that are drilled through and secured with 4 bolts. This is what I did to mine after I fitted the new rubber seal, The space between the two washers is filled with liquid steel. It has been like this for a couple of years and has not leaked a drop since it was repaired.

    Tim R
    IMG_1719D.jpeg IMG_1720D.jpeg IMG_1721D.jpeg
     

    Attached Files:

  20. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    Maybe the best solution of the series 5 valve problem is to not drive the car when the weather requires use of the heater. I had enough of that back in the 60's when I had to drive the series 4 as an every day car. Has anyone ever thought about converting to the early style valve? 107_1010.JPG The valve and mounting bracket are readily available new and would be an easy conversion.
     

Share This Page