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Series 5 Heater water valve

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by John G, Dec 27, 2018.

  1. RootesRooter

    RootesRooter Platinum Level Sponsor

    It's all good as long as the other heater hose is connected to the PCV.;)
     
  2. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Eric,

    If it's a SV they have used the valve from an early series car for the Australian and New Zealand market



    :p .;-)
     
  3. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    More info on the low quality of the repro heater control valves...

    I installed a modified MG-type heater control valve supplied by Alpine Innovations in January 2019. The main difference in appearance from Moss & Classic Sunbeam valves was how Alpine Innovations modified the one inlet to make it suitable for 1/2" heater hose. They made a much more solid connection. But it is still not a solution to those desiring a stock-ish appearance, as I noticed it is leaking coolant today out the control pin. I never adjusted the open - closed position after installing the valve. I just left it sitting in the middle (warm) position. The leaking seems to confirm a single source of repro valves are being used prior to the inlet modification.

    Mike
     
  4. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    I have one on the work bench here that leaks out through the plunger pin as well. I assume it is due to faulty rubber or grip ring inside, but I have not taken it apart because I am waiting (and waiting), to see if there will be a warranty replacement. I had another that the end plate pop off. I fabricated a new end clamp on that one that is still functioning on the car after about a year. The goal was to resolve the end plate popping off, but it was also a test to illustrate the possibility of a serviceable unit. Of course you would need to be able to obtain the internal parts to do a service.

    I had the valve closed off during the warmer months, but used the heater on some 30 degree drives in December here in New Jersey. All was working. I posted some out of the car photos of this modified valve one year ago... earlier up in this post. That seems to either indicate that one of the valves I had obtained had a better seal, or I just got lucky.

    Rick
    P1140887r.jpg
     
  5. gary1725

    gary1725 Donation Time

    not sure if this has already been said - I got mine from https://www.lbcarco.com/ the part number was 780-411 it's been on the SV for a little over 3 years and at $84 not sure if that is a good price or not for the item but that's what I pad and it replaced my incorrect and leaking Series 4 valve so the dash leaver is in the hot position when its actually allowing hot water and it fit right up and has not caused me any concern so far - I do drive all year if the roads are clear so it's been cold so I have been operating the valve regularly rather than it sitting in the closed position permanently as I am sure many do - if that offers any comfort...
     
  6. rixter

    rixter Gold Level Sponsor

    Yes, that is the part that is apparently coming from the same fabrication source no matter where it is purchased. Some work fine, others fail. That price is about what I've paid elsewhere.
    Rick
     
  7. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Gary that looks like the mgc part moss and others are selling that either pulls out the connection for the hose or fails at the punger. Your one may have been an earlier batch.

    https://www.lbcarco.com/cgi-bin/or1...srchkey=780-411&mode=searchparts&part=Y&o=&a=

    [​IMG]
     
  8. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Has anyone checked the MG forums? I wonder if all the MGC owners are having the same issues? I would assume there are more sunbeams tbstbuse them.. They built just under 9000 mgc and only the later ones use the valve.. There are a lot more SV and MKIA tigers around i would think
     
  9. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    The Moss site shows this valve being on back order. Wonder why? My post of 12/28/2018 shows the early MGC valve with adapter. This is sold by Ashley Hinton in the U.K. I haven't had to use it so I have no idea about the quality. Our series 5 has what was an NOS piece that has never leaked. Rick and I talked about this yesterday. He said if you disassemble the ones that had 100 % failure there seems to be nothing abnormal.
     
  10. sunalp

    sunalp Platinum Level Sponsor

    I have one, just like the one pictured above. It's the small aluminum piece that just came out.
    It was sort of JB welded in there and whatever was holding it in gave up. That's the only
    thing that failed on it. I'm going to take it to my machine shop ( one day) and see if they
    can thread the inside of the valve and make me a piece that will seal and not drop out.

    I have no real need to do it now as I have an NOS one on and it has no issues.

    Steve
     
  11. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    The reproduction valves can fail in 3 ways:
    1. The glued in 1/2" hose adapter will come loose.
    2. The brass colored end plate will separate from the valve body, like shown in the picture posted by Michael.
    3. The internal seal fails and coolant leaks out the plunger.

    I have had valves fail for reasons 1 & 3. Others have encountered reason 2. So even if you are lucky enough to not have issues with #1 or #2, or if you manage to address issues 1 & 2, there still seems to be a good chance the internal seal will fail after a year or two.

    I ordered an old Honda Civic valve mentioned by George Coleman. It hasn't come yet. I am going to see how it might work in its stock form, and also if I can transfer the cable attachment / control arm setup from a failed repro valve to the Honda valve. Will report back my learnings.

    Mike
     
  12. Warren

    Warren Bronze Level Sponsor

    NOS means Never On Sale :) A fellow who owns a long term foreign car garage in San Pedro had several valves dug out of the attic. They looked perfect but leaked as they did not like the decades of baking in the attic heat. What is funny is the new and improved hearlding in the shop manual and full page picture of the valve in the Tiger shop manual.
    One more chuckle. I sold a tiger to a fella he said why are you selling the car and I said because I don't want to fix everything. I told him a lot of the parts in the car are 48 years old and this heater valve weeps a little bit it's been okay for a thousand miles but could start leaking tomorrow. Next week I got a call from a panicked buyer saying the heater valve blew out in the middle of an intersection. I repeated the 5 days or 5 feet Warrenty . That valve came from a seller and fellow Sunbeam collector.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
  13. Gordon Holsinger

    Gordon Holsinger Diamond Level Sponsor

    The 5&5 warranty is too generous EOD is better. (End of driveway)!
     
  14. Alpine 1789

    Alpine 1789 SAOCA President Diamond Level Sponsor

    I thought those valves were unavailable. Where did you find it?
     
  15. Bill Blue

    Bill Blue Platinum Level Sponsor

    Don't know what NOS means, but I'm convinced that a lot of is returned (defective) merchandise that was put back on the shelf. I have found that way too much of it is simply no good. I'm talking about NOS in general, not especially Alpine.
    Bill
     
  16. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    Any of the NOS pieces for series Alpines are at least 53 years old or older. I have lots of NOS parts in the stock intended for use on our cars. Over the last 40 years Jean and I have been to countless swap meets and shows where parts are for sale and I must say that we have bought a lot of parts. It's not that difficult to see telltale indications that will determine whether new old stock pieces are defective or have been installed and been used for a short time. Parts of this age containing rubber bushings or seals of a similar compound stand a chance of being bad or only remain in working condition for a short time if in constant every day use. I have old parts price sheets and flat rate manuals for these cars. Based on the prices and inflation I doubt that many would pay todays adjusted price for a valve of the original quality if someone would make them. Small runs of parts production don't come cheap so parts suppliers are stuck with what's available. SS doesn't have any, Moss appears to not have any so it looks like somebody needs to do some engineering and solve the problem if they intend to keep things original looking.
     
  17. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Jim,

    I bought a NOS Murray aftermarket version of the 1981 to 1983 Honda Civic valve on EBay. It should arrive tomorrow.

    upload_2020-1-23_23-8-49.png

    Mike
     
  18. Alpine 1789

    Alpine 1789 SAOCA President Diamond Level Sponsor

    I will be interested in knowing if it works. I installed an NOS Rootes valve in my SV about 15 years ago and it hasn't failed me yet, but I don't know what I will do when that time comes and would like to be ready.
     
  19. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    There are two different auctions for the Civic valve on e bay. One is listed as fitting a 1980 and is selling for a third of the 81 thru 83. They look the same.
     
  20. 65beam

    65beam Donation Time

    I took an old series 5 heater valve apart today to see what's inside. There is a rubber seal on the bottom of the shaft that is spring loaded to seal off one opening and a rubber seal that fits over the top of the shaft where the cable hooks. 110_1102.JPG 110_1106.JPG
     

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