-
Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.
If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.
Enjoy.
Racing Header ???
- Thread starter mototron
- Start date
65beam
Donation Time
header
mototron,
do you notice any difference between the pipes on the left and the ones on the right? the ones on the left are a set of very old unused original series 1 and 2 pipes. the ones on the right are what rick sells and also the same as the originals on two of my harringtons. why were they used on the LeMans instead of the standard units?
mototron,
do you notice any difference between the pipes on the left and the ones on the right? the ones on the left are a set of very old unused original series 1 and 2 pipes. the ones on the right are what rick sells and also the same as the originals on two of my harringtons. why were they used on the LeMans instead of the standard units?
Attachments
Last edited:
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Neither of those headers are equal length, they are what are called tri-y headers.
Equal length headers would have a single collector where all 4 tubes become 1 (instead of 2 into 1, 2 into 1, 2 into 1).
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
still looking...
So it sounds like aftermarket 4 into 1 headers are NOT readily available?
I'm going to see a header guy this Thursday about Tiger headers and I plan to talk Alpine headers as well.
SO, HERE IS a CALL for everyone interested in a set of headers, speak up!
Let me / us know what you are interested in.
I'm thinking top shelf would be Stainless steel with a merged collector.
But mild steel with a lower cost collector may be a starting point.
Tube sizes are a bit up in the air at this point, but the plan is to make the fixtures with different tubes sizes in mind.
I'll know more by the end of the month, but don't hesitate to throw your comment in.
Thanks.
So it sounds like aftermarket 4 into 1 headers are NOT readily available?
I'm going to see a header guy this Thursday about Tiger headers and I plan to talk Alpine headers as well.
SO, HERE IS a CALL for everyone interested in a set of headers, speak up!
Let me / us know what you are interested in.
I'm thinking top shelf would be Stainless steel with a merged collector.
But mild steel with a lower cost collector may be a starting point.
Tube sizes are a bit up in the air at this point, but the plan is to make the fixtures with different tubes sizes in mind.
I'll know more by the end of the month, but don't hesitate to throw your comment in.
Thanks.
Jay Laifman
Platinum Level Sponsor
First, the difference between those two versions is simply that one is set up to make room for the larger alternator!
Second, let me know for the headers. I might be interested. But they ID would have to be large enough for the Holbay head.
I'd probably rather have steel and get them jet coated than stainless.
Second, let me know for the headers. I might be interested. But they ID would have to be large enough for the Holbay head.
I'd probably rather have steel and get them jet coated than stainless.
65beam
Donation Time
header
Jay,
The style you say were made to clear the alternator were used prior to Alpines having an alternator. They were on all of my LeMans. I do have the originals even though one Harrington now has the stainless steel and the current project will use the stainless. My other early Alpines all had the other one. My later series 4 and 5 Alpines had cast iron exhaust manifolds. The series 5 has the alternator. I have had too many problems with JetHot coatings. The 69 exhaust manifold has been recoated but continues to rust. Looks good for a couple years but doesn't last.
Jay,
The style you say were made to clear the alternator were used prior to Alpines having an alternator. They were on all of my LeMans. I do have the originals even though one Harrington now has the stainless steel and the current project will use the stainless. My other early Alpines all had the other one. My later series 4 and 5 Alpines had cast iron exhaust manifolds. The series 5 has the alternator. I have had too many problems with JetHot coatings. The 69 exhaust manifold has been recoated but continues to rust. Looks good for a couple years but doesn't last.
Jay Laifman
Platinum Level Sponsor
FWIW, I had mine coated by a local shop 20 years ago - in the chrome color. Still in great shape. Sadly, they are not in business anymore (Gold Coast Coatings, Oxnard, CA).
Also, I have had continuous problems with blown exhaust gaskets. If anyone went to the trouble to do this, I certainly would prefer that rather than four flanges, to have one long/thick piece that is cut out for the pipes to be attached to.
Also, I have had continuous problems with blown exhaust gaskets. If anyone went to the trouble to do this, I certainly would prefer that rather than four flanges, to have one long/thick piece that is cut out for the pipes to be attached to.
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Just an FYI, though equal length headers are usually what people buy or consider to be a proper header these days. Tri-y headers however with their shorter runners are usually considered better for higher RPM higher horsepower applications. They dont contribute to low end torque like the long equal length runners due but they do scavenge at higher RPMs rather well since they are paired with the compliment phases exhaust runner.
As for the alternator debacle, the mini denso alternator is so small, I doubt there is would be any issues putting one in any application that a generator fits on. Plus they are available to 60 amps so unless you need more current then that, the equivalent old school alternator will be twice and large and 4 times as heavy. The famed hitachi alternator is only 45 amps right? Compared to the mini denso it is downright huge.
Just saying.
As for the alternator debacle, the mini denso alternator is so small, I doubt there is would be any issues putting one in any application that a generator fits on. Plus they are available to 60 amps so unless you need more current then that, the equivalent old school alternator will be twice and large and 4 times as heavy. The famed hitachi alternator is only 45 amps right? Compared to the mini denso it is downright huge.
Just saying.
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
Looking for.....
.... a sample header to copy.
I talked to the Header guy, He just suggested I come up with ...well ... everything.
First a header, then the fixture.
So let me know if you have a 4 into 1 header you're proud of,
And want it copied.
I have been using an early Tri-Y on the "Love Bug" Alpine.
I did squeeze a Denso Alt in there.
I ended up inverting the thing to clear the rear cover and B+ stud.
The Alt is a Suzuki Samurai, as far as I know.
The one I used has a bolt on rear bracket that I modified and moved to the other side (upper?).
It JUST fits!..
.... a sample header to copy.
I talked to the Header guy, He just suggested I come up with ...well ... everything.
First a header, then the fixture.
So let me know if you have a 4 into 1 header you're proud of,
And want it copied.
I have been using an early Tri-Y on the "Love Bug" Alpine.
I did squeeze a Denso Alt in there.
I ended up inverting the thing to clear the rear cover and B+ stud.
The Alt is a Suzuki Samurai, as far as I know.
The one I used has a bolt on rear bracket that I modified and moved to the other side (upper?).
It JUST fits!..
Five Reviver
Silver Level Sponsor
I was going to get extractors made locally for my new Series V set-up, once engine is re-assembled and installed with new DCOE's. It's Vizard head, flat top pistons, and cam. It's intended for some hillclimbing and modern regularity (and spirited road). Not planning to win anything but I want it to go!
I haven't yet decided on design.
I'm in Adelaide, Aus.
Mototron, did you get any further with your header project?
David
I haven't yet decided on design.
I'm in Adelaide, Aus.
Mototron, did you get any further with your header project?
David
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
A picture of Larry Young's Alpine header.
The tubes are quite big, but the head was, ...well,...not quite stock...
BTW, I don't think I would do a direct copy of this, I think the tubes could be closer to equal length. And have more room for the Alt.
Also, this is a very old pic, Larry sold the car with the header LONG ago.
DW
Last edited:
Jay Laifman
Platinum Level Sponsor
Cutting out non-Alpine stuff.
In researching headers for our race car, someone told me that they now have programs or spreadsheets that you input the details of your engine, and it will tell you the optimum pipe diameters and lengths. Does anyone know about this? How do we get it and use it?
In researching headers for our race car, someone told me that they now have programs or spreadsheets that you input the details of your engine, and it will tell you the optimum pipe diameters and lengths. Does anyone know about this? How do we get it and use it?
Attachments
Last edited:
RootesRacer
Donation Time
Dayum, whats the compression ratio on that thang?
spmdr
Diamond Level Sponsor
About that head, it was a late Std Alpine Head (Nontube sparkplug), yes, it was milled down well into the side cover bolt holes (welded up).
I don't know the CR, but I do know during Pressure testing, the gauge hose wanted to stand at attention REAL bad!
....With a reading north of 225 psi!
Later, I found the gauge was unable/didn't want to read much above 225 anyway.
So, the CR was TO the MOON.
Larry worked for and knew PEOPLE in the oil production world, so he was able run REAL GOOD Gas.
Larry had very little head gasket issues considering the BIG CR, but he did have some blown head gaskets.
DW
I don't know the CR, but I do know during Pressure testing, the gauge hose wanted to stand at attention REAL bad!
....With a reading north of 225 psi!
Later, I found the gauge was unable/didn't want to read much above 225 anyway.
So, the CR was TO the MOON.
Larry worked for and knew PEOPLE in the oil production world, so he was able run REAL GOOD Gas.
Larry had very little head gasket issues considering the BIG CR, but he did have some blown head gaskets.
DW
alpine_64
Donation Time
Dan,
Welding up the water jackets and drilling them allows a custom gasket without the thin area that forms a crescent shape in the gasket.. A comom failure point.
The combustion chamber shape is now very similar to the holbay kidney shape chamber.
The valves are also nice amd large.. But with that much off the head, and not knowing block height id assume that the pistons were set below deck or pocketed.
Welding up the water jackets and drilling them allows a custom gasket without the thin area that forms a crescent shape in the gasket.. A comom failure point.
The combustion chamber shape is now very similar to the holbay kidney shape chamber.
The valves are also nice amd large.. But with that much off the head, and not knowing block height id assume that the pistons were set below deck or pocketed.