yes, what has" Power Steering" got to Do with this? (power steering by ArmStrong) LOL
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Power Steering Failure
- Thread starter sd_pace
- Start date
yes, what has" Power Steering" got to Do with this? (power steering by ArmStrong) LOL
Shannon Boal
Donation Time
I looked in the work shop manual, and cross-referenced their Shell EP 90 to what I had on hand, Amsoil severe gear 90-140. I filled the box using a little pump oil can. 1) steering effort is lower, very nice. 2) after a week, some seepage on the steering arm.......So, I sourced (Tractor Supply) the NLGI "00" grease and loaded an old grease gun (bulk load, not cartridge) with "00". A straight shot into the top, easy to fill.
My take, after speaking to Steven, is that he does not think he has the strength to shear hardened 5/16" steel balls. I agree, but more or less hold the same view of the electric power steering. My problem is that I cannot even imagine shearing steel balls. They are incredibly durable critters. I do know he really gave the power steering a workout, twirling the wheel from lock to lock at low speed.
Just put me down as mystified.
Bill
Shannon Boal
Donation Time
It baffles me, but looking carefully at this photo they appear to be sheared. If they ground/wore down, I think they would have moved about during the process, and not been perfectly flat. The cut (?) edge shows the foil-thin case hardened layer over the soft core. If they sheared, whatever did it had to be harder than the core, and I think as hard as the case. How hard is the nut?
alsalp
Donation Time
I did have EPS in my Alpine and it busted the case out. I'm gonna put it back to OEM.
I find this picture to contain some mysteries. #1, how many balls are there? If the two flat sided balls were originally one ball, where is the rest of the ball immediately to the left of the pair? Why is the small ball in the picture? Is it one of the thrust balls that reside in the ends of the worm?It baffles me, but looking carefully at this photo they appear to be sheared. If they ground/wore down, I think they would have moved about during the process, and not been perfectly flat. The cut (?) edge shows the foil-thin case hardened layer over the soft core. If they sheared, whatever did it had to be harder than the core, and I think as hard as the case. How hard is the nut?
Bill
Dan, I tend to agree. But the photo seems to contain conflicting evidence. The two halves look like they are the results of a single ball, sheared in two. The one next to them is greater than a half and the "innards" have a different appearance and seems to have lost its mate. One explanation could be that the balls were not sheared, but "popped" open as a result of pressure. Broken steel does not present a dead smooth area like a cut does and the two halves can be fit and "lock" together, That is why connecting rod caps are not cut, but are broken apart during manufacture. Also, you would expect to see ball segments that were no longer round, but ovaled.
I keep harping on this as I think it is important that the cause of failure is determined. It not from power steering overload, no Alpine on the road ccn be considered safe ubtil fthe steel are replaced. Perhaps it is the result of a worn steering box combined with power steering. We still need to know.
Bill
I keep harping on this as I think it is important that the cause of failure is determined. It not from power steering overload, no Alpine on the road ccn be considered safe ubtil fthe steel are replaced. Perhaps it is the result of a worn steering box combined with power steering. We still need to know.
Bill
alsalp
Donation Time
Um yeah. It was me.
Shannon Boal
Donation Time
I learned something on a machinist's blog devoted to making a ball nut.; the ball nut loads are carried by a few balls in a small part of the nut. It is not a half-circle of balls carrying the load. It was described as a "cathedral arch" So, that could explain how only 2-3 balls got sheared. I am thinking those flat balls failed when they quit rotating under excess pressure. We had a dry box, all the load carried in the "cathedral arch" and power assist. Electric steering, times 14 to one steering ratio on top of three ball bearings loaded across narrow lines defined by the worm gear and the cathedral arch.
Shannon Boal
Donation Time
3 bearings, cross-sectional area totals around 0.395", soft iron center of balls at 50,000 PSI, 19,000 pounds to pop three.
A cascade failure, one ball, then another?
1 bearing, cross sectional area 0.140", 50,000 pound soft center, 7000 pounds to start the failure. If someone has a slide rule, please check my math
A cascade failure, one ball, then another?
1 bearing, cross sectional area 0.140", 50,000 pound soft center, 7000 pounds to start the failure. If someone has a slide rule, please check my math
To everyone who has experienced steering box failure or knows of a failure that would otherwise not be reported, what failed?
A. blew the end out of the box.
B. destroyed the box in another fashion (and how?)
C. destroyed the balls
D. destroyed the worm.
E. Other. pleased describe.
ALSO, Tell us if the steering was operating with power or manual steering.
I have assumed the end of the box would be the failure point and came up with a rough prototype solution. I'm getting the feeling there is no need for it.
Bill
A. blew the end out of the box.
B. destroyed the box in another fashion (and how?)
C. destroyed the balls
D. destroyed the worm.
E. Other. pleased describe.
ALSO, Tell us if the steering was operating with power or manual steering.
I have assumed the end of the box would be the failure point and came up with a rough prototype solution. I'm getting the feeling there is no need for it.
Bill
alsalp
Donation Time
Mine blew out the front. The Alfa Romeo crowd has a billet box available. What would be nice if someone were to build a new box is to design replaceable readily available races. Or if there was an adapter system (bracket, U'joint ) for a common box
alsalp
Donation Time
Alfaholics Steering Box & Casing - LHD Burman Type • Alfaholics
www.alfaholics.com
alsalp
Donation Time
priceyAlfaholics Steering Box & Casing - LHD Burman Type • Alfaholics
Shannon, I'm not capable of reviewing your work, the big reason I'm not an engineer. However, you did analysis on soft, (not just soft center) balls. What about the impact of case hardening? Thinking about cracking eggs, I have to think it would be tremendous, possibly doubling the effort required.
Bill
Bill
Shannon, I think we are a couple of guys testing the temperature of the water, knowing it is way, way over our heads in depth.