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Nissan 350Z V6 (VQ35DE), 6 speed - in Alpine

P

PROCRAFT

Donation Time
Nissan

When we put the SBF in the Alpine we used a Mustang box and did not change the tail shaft we modified the hoop between the seats and boxed it in to accept the tail shaft, as to the fender braces Bill B is right they found
the front end shakes hense the braces. we build our own from scratch.
As I said before the V6 Nissan presents many problems to overcome, you could use any number of modern 4 cylinder engines and get plenty of power
for the car, however hot rodding a 4 cylinder is somes times more costly than
using a domestic V8, Im sure Bill Ashby could chime in on the cost of building a 4 cylinder engine. and as to sharing my drawings for front crossmembers
I don't think so.
 
B

Bill Blue

Platinum Level Sponsor
Speaking of modifying modern 4 bangers for power, I've found that simply feeding the beast goes a long way. Judging from the amount of fuel the Duratec likes and the resulting performance, I'm close to 200 hp with NO engine mods other than the manifolds, which were designed by me to fit the application, not enhance performance.

Bill
 
bashby

bashby

Donation Time
The more cubic inches you have the easier it is to get power (duh...) FYI as a ballpark parts for the Nissan CA18DET were not too hard to find but cost more; for instance a set of forged pistons $450-$650, forged rods $450-$600, gasket set $275, oil pump $175, water pump $45, solid lifters and cams $1400, turbocharger $750-$1000. If you keep it more stock the price drops but that brings other issues and you won't build as much power. Building it like I did gives a reliable 140-150HP/1000 cubic centimeters, imagine the cost if you got 140-150HP/61 cubic inches out of a 302 (690-740HP).
 
S

shapeshaver

Donation Time
Bill, I would just notch the top of the cruciform hoop and box it in as Procraft has stated they did.

I will fab up some new braces to somewhat triangulate that front frame to the firewall. I did not know it was so soft in this area that it would flex out of position when just sitting. That is interesting.

I am open to other engines. Yesterday while picking up the transmission I got to check out a Nissan SR20DET, (turbo four cylinder) with a strong five speed that comes with it. They are very well built engines that were engineered from the beginning as a turbo motors. The rods are quite stout and are supposed to handle 450hp. I see others have used them in Alpines as well. I like what BASHBY has done also.

It sounds like I am a fan of only Nissans here, but that is not true. I just know these two engines are fantastic and the after market parts and supply for them is prolific. The only reason to go V6 is for torque...well, and the sound. My goal is to have about 300hp in a flat curve. I originally wanted to use a GM 3400 as opposed to the 3.4 but I think it might be wider than the VQ35 I am playing with now. The older technologies are just so much cheaper! But, I really like the modern efficiencies and the ability to control and monitor things with a laptop so I will probably go that way...maybe. :)
 
S

shapeshaver

Donation Time
Wow, did you do all that to your engine? I read that you are using an ECM from Roots Racer How is that all going? Did you get your engine complete with the ECM and harness when you originally purchased it?
 
S

shapeshaver

Donation Time
I would really like a Windsor V8 in my car. The old school hot rodder wants to relive my youth. So if you engineered your IFS and you are a fab shop, why didn't you offer it as a kit or plans or something? I realize the Sunbeam community is not large and would not be the mainstay of your business model, but it would be nice if someone put out a reasonably priced IFS option. Perhaps the limited number of units produced would not warrant the exposure to liability of such a crucial part?
 
bashby

bashby

Donation Time
Yes I did all of that to my engine. The CA18DET engine comes from the factory turbocharged with forged rods but not forged pistons as I bored it 0.5mm over I needed new pistons and not knowing how it was treated in its previous life I replaced the rods as well. I bought the motor and transmission out of Montreal it came with the engine harness and the OEM Nissan ECM. I scrapped all of the harness and ECU, have a Haltech P1000 ECU and long lead harness this gets rid of all of the old wires (the motor was made in 1990) and allows for full tuning without restrictions. FYI, I believe that the SR20DET and CA18DET use the same transmission (the KA too?) but with different bell housings.
 
todd reid

todd reid

Gold Level Sponsor
Nissan 350Z

In my 30+ years of Sunbeaming I have never seen a successful engine swap using an overhead cam V type engine, so you are most likely blazing a new trail. Your proposed swap looks do-able, with some (all?) of the usual challenges to overcome. In my experience, the biggest obstacle is the exaust if the original Alpine steering box is retained. There are undoubtedly easier swaps out there, but being the first to accomplish something is also kind of neat. As they say all it takes is time & money!

Good luck with whatever course you choose, and enjoy the build! Getting there should be half the fun!
 
V

V6 JOSE

Donation Time
If you really want to do this swap, I think the best way would be to front half the car; that way you could have a structurally strong and good handling car. You can then have enough room also, to build a proper set of headers and add anything else you think you need. I think you might need to put a power bulge in the hood too, but it would be a good looking safe car. I´d love to see what it would perform like.

Jose
 
S

shapeshaver

Donation Time
Jose, I keep resisting the urge to cut up the frame structure and have challenged myself with finding a way to effectively do this swap with the least amount of modifications possible. However, there is definitely an Alpine in my future with new frame rails and R&P setup as you mentioned.
 
S

shapeshaver

Donation Time
Alpine steering arms

So I have been thinking about the one problem I have remaining and that is the exhaust clearing the steering box and the steering pivot on the other side. If I had an inch or so on each side the swap would be doable. So an idea came to me about how to make more room while retaining the alpine steering.

There are two issues that feed off of each other. The first is the narrow frame rails and the second is the cavernous inner fenders. So all I have to do is move the box and pivot outboard and the boxed section of the frame with it. Shorten the tie rods and lengthen the center link the same amount. If I went 1 1/2" on both sides and build the frame rails projecting into the fender well I should be able to retain the structural integrity of the unibody structure while providing the needed area for an effective exhaust.

Or will this introduce a boat load of bump steer? Is the ball joint of the steering arms in line with the control arm pivot points? I guess because the control arms are angled backwards I have never looked to see how it was engineered.
 
S

shapeshaver

Donation Time
Nissan V6 Update.

Not much has happened with the project for months now. I have been working on my new business and have no time for anything else it seems. I have designed a rack and pinion solution I believe will work with the sump on some engines similar to the Nisan VQ30 series engine. Other engines with rear sumps or with split sumps like the one on the VQ30's may work as well. It retains all the stock alpine suspension but gets rid of the funky steering arrangement in the engine compartment. I don't have a Ford 302 or I would set it in the engine bay to see how it will fit with the 302's sump for all those wana-be tiger conversions that get abandoned after the firewall has been cut up and they run into the standard steering issue that results in the project ending up for sale on ebay. Here is a similar solution offered by a company for classic car conversions from speedway motors. Flaming River also makes some nicely engineered products for muscle car R&P swaps using the same basic method.

7254980_orig.jpg
6628642_orig.jpg


This is a far better solution than the tiger's front steer setup and is more desirable for ackerman angles anyway.

I am also designing a simple shift linkage that will allow me to place the shifter wherever I want it so the 6 speed should work well.

I have located a JDM 260 hp VQ30DET (the "T" designation means turbo) locally and will go inspect it in the next few days. It comes with all the bits to make it run, but like the engine I am using now it will not bolt up to the '07 6 speed transmission I have. So I will be acquiring an earlier model 350Z/G35 6 speed that has the starter bulges on both sides of the bell housing. The later model trans that I have uses a hydraulic throw out bearing on it which I would like to keep. So I will have to swap it over to the new transmission when I get it.

The engine I am using as a mock-up came out of an early year FWD Maxima and has a different transmission bolt pattern than the later year blocks. I may be mistaken, but I think all of the FWD blocks had this bolt pattern. All the RWD VQ blocks have the same pattern however and the VQ30DET was a RWD engine so it will all bolt up with the double bulge transmission out of the earlier 350Z. That swap has been done numerous times by the Nissan S13 & S14 guys so the research on that part is already done.

With the stock Turbo VQ, getting more HP (up to 500) is a matter of bigger injectors fuel pump, and a bigger turbo. I really don't want that much HP, but it is nice to know the stock engine will handle it. I should be able to get 300hp to the wheels with the stock injectors by increasing boost and a good tune. The ECU is totally programmable by using a NISTUNE card and software.
 
Last edited:
hillmanhuskyguy

hillmanhuskyguy

Silver Level Sponsor
The guy in Oregon who sold me the minx drivetrain for my Husky is going
with the S2000 swap into his Minx. He's a hot-rodder & one hell of a fabricator. I don't have the link to his build thread on this 'puter
but it's awesome, slammed mini tubbed etc.
I'll post up the link tonite or tomorrow morning.
Certainly worth checking out.

Cheers,
Cris
 
socorob

socorob

Donation Time
If you look back a few pages you should find it. It was linked to from here a long time ago. Maybe search s2000.
 
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