• Welcome to the new SAOCA website. Already a member? Simply click Log In/Sign Up up and to the right and use your same username and password from the old site. If you've forgotten your password, please send an email to membership@sunbeamalpine.org for assistance.

    If you're new here, click Log In/Sign Up and enter your information. We'll approve your account as quickly as possible, typically in about 24 hours. If it takes longer, you were probably caught in our spam/scam filter.

    Enjoy.

New water pump, thermostat and lower hose

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
Hello all

In anticipation of my new parts which will arrive either tomorrow or Monday. I started to do some disassembly.

1) removed fan belt and loosened alternator.
2) removed fan blade and pulley
3) removed lower radiator hose ( drained radiator)
4) removed the very short bypass hose
***started loosening water pump bolts— loosened **5 **( *oops) all still in place— came in for a rest —watched a video that said in red letters do not remove the top center bolt. All bolts loosened not removed.
***I have not yet removed the water pump or thermostat housing.

questions:
1) how bad a mistake was loosening not removing that top center bolt- can I just snug it up again?
2) this whole job seems to be accomplished easier by removing the radiator. I have not done this but removing the fan blade (4) bolts was awkward and tight. Getting them back in will be a chore with the radiator in place. Should I remove the radiator— its already drained and appears to be held in by only 4 bolts.
Please advise.
Know that I am concerned about the red warning about that top center bolt.
Thanks
Andrew
 

ernestovumbles

Gold Level Sponsor
Can only answer about the radiator..
Yes it is only 4 bolts and not too bad to do. The drivers side bottom was a tricky reach on my car, due to the brake booster (which may be mounted on the wrong side on my car)
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
I went out try to snug the top center nut and it spun and would not tighten. I figured nothing to lose at this point and it appeared that whatever was backed by the top center nut would come with my new water pump. I removed the pump. The nut was backed by a Phillips head and I can not see its purpose. As ide from doing some gasket scraping, I am good to go until my parts arrive.

Thanks for the radiator information. My brake booster is on a shelf in my shop so that radiator bolt should not pose a problem. I will wait for others to chime in but I think the whole job will go easier and safer with the radiator removed and the last thing back on the car. I scraped my hands up pretty good on the radiator trying to remove the fan blade and the threat of cross threading the fan blade bolts on reassembly will be minimized as well as better to clean / inspect the mating surfaces for reassembly.
 

volvoguys

Diamond Level Sponsor
If your rad is in good condition, I suggest while its out that you take it to a local radiator shop and have them cook it. That'll remove all the sediment in the bottom and throughout the rows to get better flow.

After 50+ years, can you imagine how much junk is in there.

M
 

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
I absolutely could not get the new water pump installed with the radiator in place.
I have seen where someone else was able to do it but for me with relatively large hands and multiple parts/bolt holes to line up, I couldn’t get it done.
After probably an hour of trying, I pulled the radiator and then kicked myself for not having done that from the start.
It’s a simple out and in for the radiator and for me, it was well worth the time and as far as for myself, necessary.

One last thought…take your blood pressure meds, even if you aren’t on any, before dealing with reinstalling that short pump hose.
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
Put the bypass hose and clamps (loose - can use tape if needed) in place on one end or the other before installing the water pump. I forget which end I put the hose on to start with, but it was easy once I did it.

Mike
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
The radiator came off in an instant. It looks good and clean. I flushed it with a hose and all flowed very well in both directions. I think I will go with it. I also want to spread the word far and wide that removing the radiator is a good way to go when replacing the water pump. It is not part of the process in the wsm but well worth the effort. My knuckles are scraped pretty good. While I do not have my brake booster in place, it was a breeze to see and clean the mating surface with an abrasive pad on an air tool with the radiator out.
Heading out now to start the reassembly.
I was surprised to see the backing plate gasket in place. I did not put any sealant on that gasket as the parts seller said it was good to go as it arrived. I will put sealant on the other gasket.

thanks again all— I will post again if something comes up or when my results are clear and correct.
Andrew
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
Never a dull moment

I knew I wouldn’t finish today, but I did get the pump in place. The by pass hose was not too bad if you attach it to the pump first and while lining up the bolt holes slip it onto the thermostat housing and then adjust the clamps to go where you need them.

I do have 2 questions:

1) I had some damaged threads on a water pump bolt and it would not tighten down. I found a shorter bolt and secured it. Should I replace my shorter bolt with one of the specified length? I do have a longer bolt I can use but it is longer than the one I removed(by about a 1/4 inch).

2) I never noticed this before but each time a fan belt needs to be adjusted or changed out, we are expected to loosen one of the mounting bolts for the water pump. This does not seem right to me. I assume the prior owner, before 2014, changed something out with what he had lying around or is that the factory approved way of adjust a fan belt— to loosen a water pump mounting bolt. If this is different on your series V , please send a picture of what the factory intended.

Thanks again all— hope to button it down tomorrow! We’ll see ( haha)
Andrew
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
My 2 cents.
- Use gasket sealant on both water pump gaskets. I wouldn't want to do all that work and then find a leak because I didn't use a sealant.
- Thread chase the holes in the block and the threads on the bolts being re-used.
- If a shorter bolt was acceptable, I assume the factory would have used a shorter bolt to save $$.

Mike
 

sunalp

Diamond Level Sponsor
You shouldn't have to loosed the bolt that holds the tensioner bracket on the water pump.
All that's going to do is make everything loose and make the job tougher to do. The only thing
you need to "slacken" is the alternator ( or generator) mounting bolts and the bolt that attaches
that bracket to the charging device.
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
This is what I see in terms of my alternator adjustment. It would seem to me- have not yet put my belt back on— that both bolts in the picture should be loosened. Do you see what you would expect or is it the same on any 66 series V?
 

Attachments

  • A7F862BD-E2C4-43CA-9AE3-40DF096CBC5C.jpeg
    A7F862BD-E2C4-43CA-9AE3-40DF096CBC5C.jpeg
    265.8 KB · Views: 23

ernestovumbles

Gold Level Sponsor
With the top bolt loosened you are supposed to be able to pivot the alternator along the slotted hole to slacken/tighten the belt. The bottom bolt is supposed to be able to pivot. Mine didnt quite work that way and I needed to loosen the bottom bolts as well.
My original belt I think was too small and wouldnt allow enough movement to release the belt.I got a slightly larger one to replace it.

Here is a pic of my 63 Series III

51964378156_71f349d817_b.jpg
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
Leak Leak Leak.
Not sure where I messed up, but antifreeze/water was coming out before pressure had time to build. If was flowing from the top drivers side of the pump. I must have crushed a bit of gasket with a bolt or trapped some debris — I was pretty careful.. That surface was flat!!! I would be OK if the next disassembly revealed how I messed up.

Advise please. i was told NOT to take the back plate off the pump and seal that interior gasket— could I have heard bad information? Have any of you used sealant on the gasket between the plate and pump?
Any ideas are welcomed and encouraged!!!!!
Be well— I will update
Andrew
I would also like 4 new water pump bolt. Do I go to my local hardware store?
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
Maybe ask Curt why the interior gasket seal is already sufficient. Maybe they already used some of sealant on the interior gasket.

My thermostat housing seal went bad, so I had to remove the water pump to address the thermostat housing. I replaced both gaskets on the water pump. I spent a decent amount of time cleaning up the block face where the water pump mounts. I used a set of gasket scraper tools and periodically wiping with rubbing alcohol to clean off grime and the gasket residue. Maybe an hour of cleaning to get the block surface to my satisfaction.

Did you use a torque wrench on the water pump bolts?

Is there an issue with your bolts that they need to be replaced? I reused mine. Before and after photos below. They looked pretty bad before. Cleaned them using a vinegar soak, wire brushing, and POR-15 metal prep prior to painting. I did swap out the one bolt with the shoulder with another bolt, since it was not original.

upload_2022-3-28_11-38-35.png

upload_2022-3-28_11-40-37.png

Mike
 

BEpine

Platinum Level Sponsor
If you get new bolts, you will need to get longer bolts then grind/sand them down to the same length.
All the engine bolts are not standard SAE lengths.
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
There is no sealant on that inner gasket. I actually gave the plate a light tap to better line up the holes. Curt confirmed that I do not need to add sealant to that inner gasket.

I spent time trying to get that block surface clean. I used and air tool with a “scrubby” disc. There might have been a little oily residue— I gave a quick wipe with some brake clean on the block.

I just came home from the hardware store with new bolts. They are a bit longer— I was going to stick a wire in the bolt hole and find out actually how deep it is. I bought some additional washers to shorten the reach of the bolt if needed any one certain that my longer bolt is too long?

Curt did say the interior gasket was good to go. He was super in responding to my emails— quick and to the point. He suggested more sealant , and I will use more, but I am thinking I trapped something in between the pump and the block. Water was running out pretty good even without being pressurized yet.

I expect to reuse the gasket.

mike’s picture show two different sets of bolts — old with collars - new completely threaded.

Heading out to the shop soon — hoping to find some crud between the pump and the block. I also might try attaching the pump and then stuffing the bypass hose into place— not sure yet.

I will post my progress— Thanks all.
Andrew
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
I do not wish to slander Lord Rootes, but he may have miscalculated the necessary length of those water pump bolts. That said, I have no idea what requirements might be. But, By mistake, the clerk at my local ACE hardware gave me 3 of the longer and one of the shorter bolts. The shorter bolt stood proud with the pump in place. It looks like the short bolt would work without a problem. That said, I will get a 4th longer bolt and attempt to shorten 4. Do I just measure it and take off the appropriate amount with my grinding wheel?— maybe thread a nut on , then run it down to chase the threads clean?

what I observed: I would have to say that it appears as if I did not get any sealant on the back section of the offending corner of the gasket. It is the only oddity I could find. I got it all buffed out again— block and pump, but I damaged my gasket on removal— (haha) it came off pretty easily from the leaky corner, but stuck and tore where I had the sealant.

I suppose I could make a new gasket, but will probably order 2 instead.

be well — advise if you can. I will post again as the job progresses.
Andrew
 

Silver Creek Sunbeam

Gold Level Sponsor
I made my last water pump gasket and it has worked without issue.
It just depends on whether you want to wait on the mail…but Curt does ship very quickly.
 

Acollin

Platinum Level Sponsor
I think I had a revelation, but could use some help verifying my notion.

mike’s picture flicked a switch for me along with me trimming bolts to get the job done.

When I installed the new water pump, I thoughtlessly eliminated the spacer from the water pump bolt that secures the alternator bracket. This bolt is longer than the other three. Eliminating the spacer caused the longer water pump bolt to bottom out into the block. It appeared tight through my wrench as it was pressed into the block, but did NOT completely press the water pump onto the block. This explains why water was running out by that bolt hole even before the cooling system could build pressure. I now believe that the water pump was not completely tightened to the block along the entire gasket run.

QUESTION: Is the spacer on the longest bolt on the water pump that anchors the alternator bracket critical to securing the water pump to the block.

Can any of you folks verify my theory?

Waiting on my gasket
Be well all
Andrew
 

husky drvr

Platinum Level Sponsor
I think I had a revelation, but could use some help verifying my notion.

mike’s picture flicked a switch for me along with me trimming bolts to get the job done.

QUESTION: Is the spacer on the longest bolt on the water pump that anchors the alternator bracket critical to securing the water pump to the block.

Andrew

Andrew,

Just a guess, your spacer might not be "needed" to tighten down the WP, but it is probably needed to align the adjustment brkt to the generator.

Have fun,
 
Top