New Battery is Now Dead

[Whiskey Whistle]

Hello and welcome to my third problem thread this week! Thanks in advance for the advice. I finally have time to get after some things on the to-do list for the Sunbeam.

My 3-year-old battery had been giving me trouble lately, so I replaced it for a 4-day weekend trip my wife and I went on last week. It was a great time. Anyway, we got back after driving hundreds of miles no problem, put it in the garage, and three days later I go to start the car and, "tick!" the battery can't get the starter to turn over. Crap. Nothing was accidentally left on. Nightly temps were only down to 50F, with 60-65F highs during the day. I put it on the trickler over night and it starts now. The battery is only a week old.

The alternator was replaced at the same time the starter was replaced and the wiring harness redone. I don't know exactly when, but perhaps within the last five or six years. I received the original in the new alternator's box with the car. The belt seems to turn the alternator just fine when the engine is running. The battery terminals are secure and clean. It's a negative ground car.

I'm thinking either the alternator has a problem, or something is wrong with the wiring causing a parasitic leak. Either way, now I'm thinking I didn't actually need a new battery a week ago...

 

[hartmandm]

Since you redid the wiring, what ensures the alternator is disconnected when the ignition is off?

 

[Whiskey Whistle]

I didn't redo the wiring myself, but that's a good question. The wiring was done by a professional small business owner who flips classics for a living.

Since you redid the wiring, what ensures the alternator is disconnected when the ignition is off?

 

[sunalp]

You need to check for a parasitic draw on your battery. It's a pretty easy thing to do, all you need is a
test light. Disconnect the negative cable on the battery. Clip the test light to the cable end and touch it to
the the negative terminal on the battery. If the test light lights up, you have a parasitic draw on the battery.

The harder thing is to find where the draw comes from, but I suspect the alt was hooked up in a way that
has caused this. I'm not sure what alt that is, but some of them need a switched ignition source to charge.
If the person that put that in has that directly to the battery lug on the starter relay that could be it.

Keep us posted!

 

[Knightowl61]

Check your voltage. A good battery should read around 12.5 volts not running and 13.5 - 14.5 volts reving the engine around 1500 rpm.

 

[nsbluenose]

In March I bought a new battery from Costco. Soon after connecting the battery it didn’t seem right. Trickle charged it, but it would soon lose its charge. Exchanged for another from Costco, same battery, and everything was fine. So even if your battery is new, it still could be faulty.

 

[Scotty]

I don’t know why I’m thinking this, but I feel your Alternator and Battery are fine and there’s a wire loose on the Ignition switch or somewhere along the battery line. Could be a dead Alt, but you can check that and the Battery with a Multimeter to make sure.

Do you unhook the battery when you park or store it? It hasn’t been cold enough, at least in my part of the Bay, for it to be a concern.

 

[Tom H]

What evidence or indication do you have that the alternator / charging system is working? It's quite possible to go on a 4 day trip and see "no problems", while all the whole trip, the charging system is not charging, but when you end the trip and put the car in the garage, the battery is just about fully discharged , just having enough charge to power the ignition for the last dozen miles or so, but not enough left to crank the starter.

 

[sunbeamowner]

You need to check for a parasitic draw on your battery. It's a pretty easy thing to do, all you need is a
test light. Disconnect the negative cable on the battery. Clip the test light to the cable end and touch it to
the the negative terminal on the battery. If the test light lights up, you have a parasitic draw on the battery.

The harder thing is to find where the draw comes from, but I suspect the alt was hooked up in a way that
has caused this. I'm not sure what alt that is, but some of them need a switched ignition source to charge.
If the person that put that in has that directly to the battery lug on the starter relay that could be it.

Keep us posted!

Sounds like a good test idea but would not work if you have a clock which is going all the time. This would be drawing power.

 

[sunalp]

Actually it would work. It would show a draw and once you unhooked the clock, it would either
show that the draw was gone, or that it still had a draw from another source.

 

[jumpinjan]

Is the alternator a one-wire Delco/GM? I see only one large cable connection.
Jan

 

[Whiskey Whistle]

Is the alternator a one-wire Delco/GM? I see only one large cable connection.
Jan

I don't know what that means, but I also noticed only one cable connection

 

[Whiskey Whistle]

I tested for a parasitic leak, but it came back negative. My plan is to take the alternator to a guy in town that will test it, and can reportedly fix alternators in under an hour for a reasonable fee. I'll let y'all know how it goes.

 

[Tom H]

Before you pull the alternator to have it tested, test the SYSTEM with the alternator installed. Start the engine (with jump start if necessary) and measure the voltage at the battery. The battery voltage should be 13.5 to 14.5 V while running. Is it possible that your alternator has never worked since it was installed, and that your trickle charge is what has kept you going? Is it possible that the alternator is mis-wired?

Tom

 

[dougbeck]

i had that same problem. I had to disconnect the battery while parked in the garage or keep a trickle charger hocked up. The Dan at British European Auto in San Pedro, CA installed a switch in the back that disconnects the battery. he said i had a small "leak" that drains the battery when sitting too long. Never had the problem since. i just flip the switch when i park it in the garage.

 

[Whiskey Whistle]

Before you pull the alternator to have it tested, test the SYSTEM with the alternator installed. Start the engine (with jump start if necessary) and measure the voltage at the battery. The battery voltage should be 13.5 to 14.5 V while running. Is it possible that your alternator has never worked since it was installed, and that your trickle charge is what has kept you going? Is it possible that the alternator is mis-wired?

Tom

I forgot to mention I also tested the system for voltage. Everything is as it should be while running. 12v with only ignition on, and around 14v while running.

I think the problem is fairly new, since I haven't experienced it before in the two years of ownership, and it is so acute that it can kill a battery within a week.

Thanks everyone for the input!

 

[Shannon Boal]

Well, it seems to charge normally. And, there is no parasitic drain. If all that is true, it leaves an internal (in the battery) drain. Why not charge the battery, disconnect a cable, and see if it goes dead while disconnected?

 

[Scotty]

I forgot to mention I also tested the system for voltage. Everything is as it should be while running. 12v with only ignition on, and around 14v while running.

I think the problem is fairly new, since I haven't experienced it before in the two years of ownership, and it is so acute that it can kill a battery within a week.

Thanks everyone for the input!

Shot in the dark, is it possible your trickle charger is somehow killing your battery over time? I know some of them have some sort of electronic deal it uses to talk to an ECM or the like to make sure the batteries charge right or some such and cars without it can get their systems damaged. Our stock system is really simple and I can’t see it damaging an Alternator but I can see it taking out a battery.

After all your info it’s obvious it’s not your wiring and charging system is sound and was reworked recently, so it has to be something -besides- the car.

I have a clock in mine and I run it off batteries. I disconnect power when it’s parked and have had no issues with that, tho I drive mine a lot so take that for what it’s worth.

 

[Whiskey Whistle]

Shot in the dark, is it possible your trickle charger is somehow killing your battery over time? I know some of them have some sort of electronic deal it uses to talk to an ECM or the like to make sure the batteries charge right or some such and cars without it can get their systems damaged. Our stock system is really simple and I can’t see it damaging an Alternator but I can see it taking out a battery.

After all your info it’s obvious it’s not your wiring and charging system is sound and was reworked recently, so it has to be something -besides- the car.

I have a clock in mine and I run it off batteries. I disconnect power when it’s parked and have had no issues with that, tho I drive mine a lot so take that for what it’s worth.

Interesting, I hadn't heard of tenders ruining batteries over time. This is not the case here though, since I had not placed the battery on a tender in-between buying it and it dying a week a later.

 

[hartmandm]

Some trickle chargers will charge continuously, which will ruin the battery. A "tender" should only charge when needed.

A new battery rarely comes with a full charge. Before installing, I always put the new battery on a tender and charge it fully.

I'd do what Shannon Boal suggested and measure the battery voltage down to the tenth. 12.6 is different than 12.0.

Mike