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Ignition key positioning

Discussion in '"Stock" Alpine' started by Acollin, May 12, 2022.

  1. Acollin

    Acollin Platinum Level Sponsor

    Goofy Question, I suppose.

    i have owned my series v since 2014. In 8 years, I have always parked or left the ignition key in what I would call the vertical position ( hope this is clear). Flats right and left— key teeth down ( 6 o’clock)
    When my key is in the vertical position, the radio can be turned on.
    One click clockwise , radio turns off.
    Have I been leaving my car in the accessory position/ vertical, when car is parked?
    When ignition key is vertical— is this the accessory position?
    Is one click clockwise from vertical the off position?

    Thanks — a little embarrassed
  2. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Sounds like vertical may be the accessory position, since the radio is still powered and one turn to the right turns the radio off. On my series V, about 1 o'clock is the 'off' position.

  3. Alpine 1789

    Alpine 1789 SAOCA President Diamond Level Sponsor

    Not necessarily. It has been a while since I had the stock harness and fuse block, but isn't one of the fuses always on? The radio may simply have been wired to that circuit, in which case the position of the key would be irrelevant.
  4. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    OP mentioned turning the ignition one click clockwise turns off the radio. So I concluded the radio is being powered by a circuit going through the ignition switch.
  5. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Guess we didn't answer one of your questions. The ignition switch positions going clockwise are:
    1. accessory
    2. off
    3. run
    4. start

  6. JR66

    JR66 Platinum Level Sponsor

    Mike is correct about the order of the switch positions but the actual terminal numbers on the back of the switch are 1 thru 4:
    1. power in
    2. run
    3. start
    4. accessory

    With key vertical (teeth down) switch is in the off position, voltage on pin 1 only
    One click to the left from off (counterclockwise) is accessory position & voltage is put on pin 4 only
    One click to the right from off (clockwise) is run position and voltage is put on pins 2 and 4
    Full clockwise against spring force is start position and voltage is on pins 2 and 3

    I didn't expect the run position to also power the accessory terminal. They may have done this so the radio could be powered from pin 4 and work both when the car is parked (switch in accessory position) and when driving (switch in run position). My radio power wire had come loose so I didn't know where it had been connected. I was thinking of adding a relay so the radio could be powered both in the run and accessory position until I noticed that the accessory pin 4 stays hot when driving (switch in run position). So the radio can be powered off accessory pin 4.

    I can't explain why Acollin's radio turns off with one click clockwise unless, as he says, he may have been leaving the switch in the accessory position when leaving the car. This can happen if the whole switch has rotated slightly so that the key is vertical when in the accessory position. This can be easily confirmed if there is no click in the counterclockwise direction from key vertical position. Unfortunately the whole switch is not keyed to the dash so the correct position relies on the switch mounting being tight.
  7. Acollin

    Acollin Platinum Level Sponsor

    Could my solution be as simple as loosening the dashboard notched ring on the ignition switch and rotating the switch counter clockwise until “off” (no radio on) is vertical (key teeth down) and accessory is a click toward counterclockwise ?
    I could assume the PO possibly tightened the ignition switch with accessory vertical.
    Makes sense?
    Thanks for all the replies
  8. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    The Ignition switch position IS "keyed" by virtue of the D shaped mounting bushing and the D shaped mounting hole in the dash. But the fit is so loose that it's easy to have the bushing nut tightened with the switch rotated at least one position from the design position. Should be easy to loosen, reposition, and tighten the bushing nut.
  9. JR66

    JR66 Platinum Level Sponsor

    Tom H, thanks for the information about the switch being "keyed" to the dash. I didn't notice that when I put my switch back in. I'll have to go check and see if I've got it anchored correctly.
  10. ernestovumbles

    ernestovumbles Gold Level Sponsor

    I have turned key full counterclockwise to turn off (so accessory) for the past 3+ years.
    I dont have a radio and havent noticed anything different in position 1 or 2..
    Lighter outlet has power in all key positions.
    Is there any harm leaving it in accessory?
  11. Acollin

    Acollin Platinum Level Sponsor

    My experience is that there is no harm in shutting the car down in the accessory key position.
    I have done this every day for 8 years. That is to say with no accessories still drawing power. Ex: If with key on accessory with my radio turned on and I did not notice my radio was on, I assume the battery would go flat.
    It does seem odd to me that ernestvumbles lighter is always hot— powered up — even with key in “off “ position.

    Tom: I have not yet looked — but if the back of my dash has a keyed “D” space for my ignition switch and my switch is set into the “D”, does that mean the factory intended my car to be on accessory with the key vertical( teeth down) and to be in the off position one click clockwise (at about 1 o’clock) ?

    All my key positions work just fine and are in the correct order. They are just not exactly where I would expect them to be. Is the factory set up what I see in my car?
    Thanks all
  12. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    I'm not surprised. The cigar lighter is not shown on the wiring diagram. My cigar lighter was connected to a connector on the headlights dash switch where it would only be on when the running lights were on (or was it the headlights on?). Ignition switch is not relevant to the headlights or running lights. But I really doubt that was the stock setup. There was another connector on that same headlights switch which was always hot. I moved the cigar lighter over to that other connector. Later, I ran a new fused circuit to the cigar lighter so I could safely power devices requiring 15 amps, such as a tire inflator.

    I've had many cars where the cigar lighter is always on. My newer cars with the silly push button start all kill the power to the cigar lighter at some point after the ignition is off, such as either immediately when the ignition goes off, or when I open the driver's or passenger's door. I'd rather have it always on.

  13. ernestovumbles

    ernestovumbles Gold Level Sponsor

    My car was definitely redone, so no idea how close or far from stock it is..
    I actually never tried the lighter till last year when I was taking a longer drive and wanted to plug in my gps and found it non-functional.
    This spring I found the loose wire missing from the terminal on the back of the lighter socket.

    Now I do have power to the socket, but I am still a bit afraid to push in the button ;-)

  14. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Just double check there is no funny looking stuff under the seats before pushing in the lighter.

    ernestovumbles likes this.
  15. Tom H

    Tom H Platinum Level Sponsor

    Mike, yes, the cigar lighter is not shown on the SV wiring diagram. But it is shown on the SIV diagram where it is shown as being connected to Term 2 on the fuse block, which means it is fused, but not switched, the same circuit for any courtesy lights installed. The headlights and running lights are also unswitched, but unfused.

  16. hartmandm

    hartmandm Moderator Platinum Level Sponsor

    Hi Tom,

    My series V has no courtesy lights, under bonnet light, etc. Nothing is connected to the fused end of that second fuse. I'm guessing the cigar lighter was connected differently when the car was built to specs without the courtesy lights. The black supply wire to the cigar lighter is fairly short - maybe a foot long.



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