Head gasket/Rebuild Time

[fastfrontier17]

Doing a timing cover update along with replacing some misc gaskets. I took the 1-4 header off and noticed some crystalized yellow deposits in the exhaust runner. I haven't drained the oil yet, but the oil under the valve cover was clean, and there was no smoke in the exhaust the last it ran. There's some green droplets in there too...not sure if that means crack or gasket. Anyone have any input?

 

[alpine_64]

Could have been a leaking head gasket not fully blown. Id hope not a crack in the head.. Are you planning on pulling the head? If so do basic insoevtikn on gasket, if not obvoius blow look for hairline crazing on the gasket surface if its a composite gasket.

if thats all good look for how the crescent water
passages in the head look.. Are they opened up ?
If nothing obvious send head for pressure testing.

 

[beamdream]

Doing a timing cover update along with replacing some misc gaskets. I took the 1-4 header off and noticed some crystalized yellow deposits in the exhaust runner. I haven't drained the oil yet, but the oil under the valve cover was clean, and there was no smoke in the exhaust the last it ran. There's some green droplets in there too...not sure if that means crack or gasket. Anyone have any input?

Hmmm does look suspiciously like a coolant leak, have you been losing coolant ?

Sometimes with a coolant leak into the combustion area you'll finish up with squeaky clean spark plugs.

 

[fastfrontier17]

Could have been a leaking head gasket not fully blown. Id hope not a crack in the head.. Are you planning on pulling the head? If so do basic insoevtikn on gasket, if not obvoius blow look for hairline crazing on the gasket surface if its a composite gasket.

if thats all good look for how the crescent water
passages in the head look.. Are they opened up ?
If nothing obvious send head for pressure testing.

Wasn't planning on pulling the head, but I may have no option now. I only pulled the header because I did the steering cross tube bushings at the same time. There was never any overheating or smoke, and when I drained the radiator to get access to the timing cover, the coolant was a nice lime green, no signs of any oil getting to it. Hell, I stuffed a paper towel in the open exhaust runner after pulling the header just to keep bugs out. I remember pulling the water pump and getting coolant all over the place and I don't even remember if I used that paper towel in cylinder to 1 to blot up any of the mess. Anyways, I digress, cylinder 4 just looked like typical carbon deposits, and haven't check cylinder 2/3.

Hmmm does look suspiciously like a coolant leak, have you been losing coolant ?

Sometimes with a coolant leak into the combustion area you'll finish up with squeaky clean spark plugs.

No coolant leak that I can tell. I didn't really measure what I drained, but it was well over a gallon. Didn't know that about the plugs...I'll pull them tonight and check.

 

[mxp01]

How long had the car sat before you removed the exhaust manifold? Anything building up in the exhaust port would be burned off. Unless the head was leaking coolant so bad into the combustion chamber that it would cause a misfire, but you would of noticed that.

Almost seems like that those deposits devolved after the engine was off.

 

[fastfrontier17]

How long had the car sat before you removed the exhaust manifold? Anything building up in the exhaust port would be burned off. Unless the head was leaking coolant so bad into the combustion chamber that it would cause a misfire, but you would of noticed that.

Almost seems like that those deposits devolved after the engine was off.

So it ran 6-7 months ago, and the fuel in the tank at the time was ~1 year old and was the typical 93 with ~10% ethanol. I didn't drive the car because the timing cover was leaking badly and the front and rear shocks were way past gone. I was lazy (we moved last year and other things got in the way) and didn't put in any fuel stabilizer, nor could I find any marine gas greater than 87 octane at the time. It wasn't missing or anything, but it was running rich and wouldn't idle like it used to when warm. I did drain all that fuel, but it has been sitting for the 6-7 months, and the header has been off for a couple months now. I didn't notice this until a flashlight hit the cylinder just right last night.

 

[mxp01]

The deposits are on top of all the carbon build up in that port and show no signs of soot. With the amount of time the engine has sat and the manifolds being removed, I would say this growth happen during the last 6-7 months.

To be on the safe side. I would remove the sparks plugs and crank the engine with the starter to see if water/coolant shoots out of any spark plug hole. This would also eliminate the possibility of hydro lock in a cylinder and bending a connecting rod. Remember water doesn't compress.

 

[RootesRooter]

Before you pull the head you might try finding a radiator shop that will do a cooling system pressure test.

 

[fastfrontier17]

Before you pull the head you might try finding a radiator shop that will do a cooling system pressure test.

That is a good idea...

 

[Pete S.]

Any chance it's just condensation?

 

[hartmandm]

That is a good idea...

A home kit for pressure testing is not that expensive. E.g. I have this Gates tester - https://smile.amazon.com/Gates-31367-Radiator-Cap/dp/B002H80W2E
There are adapters for purchase that allow it to test my daily drivers, too. I've used it more than 5 times in the past couple of years.

Mike

 

[fastfrontier17]

Any chance it's just condensation?

I mean, it's like gold/yellow, so I doubt it.

 

[fastfrontier17]

Pulled all spark plugs, but only took a photo of the cylinder (1) in question. The same red buildup on the exhaust valve is on the plug with a little oil on the threads. The other plugs are just your typical matte black and relatively clean, but with a little oil also on threads, some more than the others. All plugs are original to when I purchased the car and are Champion N5C's.

 

[alpine_64]

@fastfrontier17
I hadnt realised the car had been dormant for so long.
If the gasket was leaking while standing id expect the coolant to be more in the cylinder atop the pistons than in the ports... Id exepct that when it was last shut down that if it had been warmed up the traces would have been burnt out of the ports.

Checking the plugs is a good idea.. If there is a cleaned plug will indicate steam in the head.

A chem test of the cooling system looking for gas is a good idea...but car has to be running.

Also starting the car with rad cap open and looking for bubbling of gas in the system is a visual check.

No condensation in the oil filler cap is good.. But not definitive.

When it ran did it slowly drop coolant level? Needed topping up now and then?
Was it easy to start?
Did it have a slight miss in startup till warm?

I had a HG fail over a long time.. Checked obvious signs...nothing.. But i was slowly loosing coolant level... Was a very slow leak through a crazed gasket.. Then it started to let go and failed.

So maybe best to get the car back together and then run all the test for signs of gasket failure...

Hopefully at worst gasket.. Its quite uncomon for the heads to crack... Though they do warp if overheated

 

[fastfrontier17]

@fastfrontier17
I hadnt realised the car had been dormant for so long.
If the gasket was leaking while standing id expect the coolant to be more in the cylinder atop the pistons than in the ports... Id exepct that when it was last shut down that if it had been warmed up the traces would have been burnt out of the ports.

Checking the plugs is a good idea.. If there is a cleaned plug will indicate steam in the head.

A chem test of the cooling system looking for gas is a good idea...but car has to be running.

Also starting the car with rad cap open and looking for bubbling of gas in the system is a visual check.

No condensation in the oil filler cap is good.. But not definitive.

When it ran did it slowly drop coolant level? Needed topping up now and then?
Was it easy to start?
Did it have a slight miss in startup till warm?

I had a HG fail over a long time.. Checked obvious signs...nothing.. But i was slowly loosing coolant level... Was a very slow leak through a crazed gasket.. Then it started to let go and failed.

So maybe best to get the car back together and then run all the test for signs of gasket failure...

Hopefully at worst gasket.. Its quite uncomon for the heads to crack... Though they do warp if overheated

You know I've had this car for a couple years and never had to top off the coolant or had any overheating issues. It's been so long now since I've had it running on fresh fuel that I can't recall it missing when it had fresh gas in it, but it did miss a little last it ran on the old fuel. There was no coolant in the cylinder from observation with the spark plug out. As far as starting, when I didn't have solenoid or starter electrical issues, it started on the first or second try with a little choke. Was a NY car, and still runs a little rich until it's up to operating temp, but all around good runner.

Oh yeah, the PO did have some coolant jugs in the trunk. Not sure if this was for any certain reason or if he was just the typical worrywart. Hell, it leaked oil out the TC badly and there wasn't any extra oil in the trunk. It may have just been the extra stuff he had for the car because there were some cant rails in there too.

 

[fastfrontier17]

Should also mention all plugs have a reddish tint to the insulator, which I believe means there was some fuel treatment or octane booster used.

 

[beamdream]

Pulled all spark plugs, but only took a photo of the cylinder (1) in question. The same red buildup on the exhaust valve is on the plug with a little oil on the threads. The other plugs are just your typical matte black and relatively clean, but with a little oil also on threads, some more than the others. All plugs are original to when I purchased the car and are Champion N5C's.

Yeah doesn't look healthy; but pressure test before anything else would be wise.

 

[fastfrontier17]

Yeah doesn't look healthy; but pressure test before anything else would be wise.

Bought a harbor freight compression tester, and out the box the gauge was stuck on 30. Couldn't get any higher than 90 psi on the gauge on any cylinder, but all cylinders were at 90 psi, so even though the tester is junk at least all 4 cylinders are consistent. Not worth the gas to just go exchange it, so I bought a better reviewed one on Amazon and it should be in by Friday. Let's hope it works better.

 

[beamdream]

Bought a harbor freight compression tester, and out the box the gauge was stuck on 30. Couldn't get any higher than 90 psi on the gauge on any cylinder, but all cylinders were at 90 psi, so even though the tester is junk at least all 4 cylinders are consistent. Not worth the gas to just go exchange it, so I bought a better reviewed one on Amazon and it should be in by Friday. Let's hope it works better.

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of a radiator pressure test to see if compression is getting into the coolant

 

[fastfrontier17]

Actually I was thinking more along the lines of a radiator pressure test to see if compression is getting into the coolant

Well, no coolant in the car at the moment. Not going to fill until everything else is situated.