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H-Beam Racing rods

Discussion in 'Rootes Racing' started by jdoclogan, Feb 15, 2021.

  1. jdoclogan

    jdoclogan Platinum Level Sponsor

    Over the last few months I've spent many hours researching the engine build for the #41 Sebring Alpine. Starting with Jan Servaites' articles in The Alpine Marque, issues 7 and 14 (found on this site) to Jerry Titus' 1962 Sports car Graphics articles Project Sunbeam. Having found a performance engine builder close by setting out to find components became imperative. Today an internet pursuit provided me with access to the often mentioned Chevy rod. This is what I found:

    https://www.eaglerod.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1 was the apparent supplier of the part I wanted (H-beam racing rods).

    upload_2021-2-15_15-0-47.png

    Note: the part number for the Chevy rod, above, is the same as the Pinto rod, below, except for the -6 on the end of the Chevy rod number. They are the same measurements. The pricing per unit is the same=$133.33

    upload_2021-2-15_15-5-7.png

    Looking further into the internet I found the following:


    upload_2021-2-15_15-15-58.png

    These price out at $89.47 each.

    Looks like the ones to buy!!
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Feb 16, 2021
  2. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    Words of warning here, better find out the minimum bore size for those rods to be able to slide down during assembly.

    One of the chevy rod conversion steps is to grind the big ends down so you can assemble the engine.
    You probably dont want to do that to such nice rods.

    My race 1725 has rods that are too big to slide down the bores, what do you think I have to do to put the motor together?
     
  3. jdoclogan

    jdoclogan Platinum Level Sponsor

    Did you put the pistons and rods in from the bottom first before securing the Crank?
     
  4. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    Close, but Sadly, the pistons cant clear the main bearing saddles..
    Put the pistons in the bore at 45° push them through the bores till the pistons pin hole clears the inside of the crankcase. Install pin (with teflon buttons to keep the pin centered).
    Rotate piston and rod.
    Repeat 3X.
     
  5. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Just saw this after a chat with jerry.. Jartif iirc you had to clearance the block for the nuts on your crower rods?

    I spoke to jerry re the toyota supra rods which are almost the same size as stock 1725 rods and come in many aftermarket options.. Im figuring there may be a 4age or similar toyota 4cyl that shares them.

    Dan W was talking about triumph gt6 rods recently.... A rabbit hole of options once we start machining things to fit.
     
  6. RootesRacer

    RootesRacer Donation Time

    I was on ebay the other day and saw chevy 294 6 cyl 4340 H Beam rods in both 5.7 and 6" C2C for low 200s (that's for 6 rods). These and all other
    L6 chevy rods need narrowed .050" for the rootes engine, but thats easily done at a machine shop.
    I have 6" crower sportsmans which are a pretty good rods, but I am seriously thinking of getting a set of these H beams.
    I'll weight mine (or just look up the weights off the crower website) and if the H beams are lighter, I may just buy one and a half sets.
     
  7. Dillon65

    Dillon65 Donation Time

    There is a company in the UK that makes H beam rods for alpines wms-racing.com
    The size is 142.88x57.70x23.82. Thats about 5.625 inches long. Cost is 290.00 pounds or about 390.00 dollars. Currently out of stock, but they might make some if there is interest. With the size of these rods would machining need to be done to fit the alpine block? I ordered a set for my 2.8 v6. Very good looking and balancing was perfect. Just thought I pass this info on.
     
  8. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Dillon, are you reffering to williams?
     
  9. Five Reviver

    Five Reviver Silver Level Sponsor

    Yes it's Williams.
    I am contemplating lightening my internals with standard stroke + bore already .060 oversized and flat top pistons.
    I emailed WMS (Williams Racing) to ask whether these 'out of stock' rods could be ordered. Andy's answer is, 'Only if you want 5 set, that's the minimum order qty and I hardly sell any so would need to order 5 sets.'
    So, if five of us want a set of light, strong, standard dimension rods, it's available to us.
    With ARP 8740 bolts UKP 270, ARP 200 bolts UKP 290.
    Any takers?
    I make one, so far.
    David
     
  10. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    David,

    I'm thinking the Toyota rods might be a better option than the williams ones as you can buy easily and lots of selection.. Also if you and another person buy 2 sets (12 rods) you have enough for 3 motors....

    Also max speed do performance rods at a reasonable cost.. Lots of BMC and Triumph guys have started running them..
    https://www.maxpeedingrods.co.uk/category/h-beam-connecting-rods/triumph-conrods.html

    They will make custom sets for multi orders too.
     
  11. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    I have not done the math on what is the practical longest rod, but how about this for the potential of LOW reciprocating weight:

    CRS6260V3D Eagle Specialty Products, Audi/VW 2.0L TSFI

    **This listing is for a weight matched set of 4 rods**

    Specifications:

    length: 6.260 in.
    rod journal: 1.8806 in.
    housing bore: 1.9925 in.
    pin size: 0.787 in.
    big end width: 0.9870 in.
    pin end width: 0.9870 in.
    thickness above pin: 0.222 in.
    typical weight: 615 g
     
  12. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    This is another rod I'm looking at:

    CRS5806C3D Eagle Specialty Products, Chevrolet 2.3L Quad 4

    Specifications:

    length: 5.806 in.
    rod journal: 1.889 in.
    housing bore: 2.0150 in.
    pin size: 0.866 in.
    big end width: 1.0080 in.
    pin end width: 0.8750 in.
    thickness above pin: 0.200 in.
    typical weight: 590 g
     
  13. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    Dan,

    Do you have a target rod ratio (or range) you are looking at?
    And to confirm you are working on a 1725?
     
  14. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    And then this:


    Mitsubishi 4G63 2nd Gen Engine

    CRS-5900-MBB

    DIMENSIONS
    length: 5.900 in.
    rod journal: 1.7710 in.
    housing bore: 1.8900 in.
    pin size: 0.866 in.
    big end width: 1.0380 in.
    pin end width: 1.0380 in.
    thickness above pin: 0.200 in.
    typical weight: 575g


    NOTES:
    7 bolt 4G63 (1993 to 2007)
     
  15. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    Michael, Yes, a 1725. But, 1600s are NOT off the table.

    And , of course, with smaller crank pin sizes, strokes are open territory.

    At this point, I'm leaning quite heavily to the extra long rod with the smallest piston pin.

    This would yield the shortest, lightest piston and pin.

    This would be MY "New school" of piston and rod direction.

    I'm VERY close to pulling the trigger on the commitment of several Alpine engines

    with the 6.260" rods.

    This is very doable with a nominal Compression height of 1.215" (std 1725 stroke).

    As far as rod/stroke ratio, there are different schools of thought to consider.

    And THAT is part of the consideration.

    But I'm currently going on the OLD Smoky ROT, "go as long as you can" (or something along those lines...).

    DW
     
  16. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    :p ... I thought the old ROT if you want more inches stroke it... Oh wait... That's something else
     
  17. husky drvr

    husky drvr Platinum Level Sponsor

    If comparing specs here is another possibility. Still listed @ < $500 @ Summit for a set of four.

    Dodge SRT4

    Manley 14010-4

    Connecting Rod Length Center to Center (in.):
    5.945 in.
    Connecting Rod Beam Style:
    H-beam
    Connecting Rod Material:
    Forged 4340 steel
    Wrist Pin Style:
    Floating
    Big End Bore Diameter (in.):
    2.0870 in.
    Big End Width (in.):
    1.015 in.
    Pin End Bore Diameter:
    0.867 in.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
  18. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    Yes, Different strokes for different Folks...

    If you want the BIG cubes, the small crank pin of the 4G63 is your rod!

    BUT, IF any stroke changes are in my future, I MAY DEstroke a 1725 crank!

    I can't see trying to push MORE air (of bigger cubes) through the limited flow Head!


    BUT, THIS is JUST my current thinking.
     
  19. spmdr

    spmdr Donation Time

    I have decided to practice what I preach!

    I have pulled the trigger on several sets of the L O N G rods!

    The next step is to pick a Bore size and ring set for several sets of pistons.
     
  20. alpine_64

    alpine_64 Donation Time

    I would think a metric bore size close to 0.60 would be ideal as lots of high quality rings available from the JDM market
     

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