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"Guesstamate"of survivors
- Thread starter Beuford
- Start date
These were special cars and when they crapped out a lot of folks tucked them away for later. Later may or may not ever come, but I know I have sent in #s for at least 5 cars that were previously undiscovered. BAT has listed close to 200 and TAC certs are close to 2000. Anybody's guess but most likely more than you'd think. Just my .02.
Acollin
Platinum Level Sponsor
when you say “ how many are left” are you considering in what form? My “belief” and because I truly admire originality- there can only be a handful. What does a “ survivor” actually mean? In my view, vin numbers and factory ID plates, do not make much of a car.
Not sure how wise it is to even consider the question. I’m sure I probably offended a few of the faithful by my comments.
Not sure how wise it is to even consider the question. I’m sure I probably offended a few of the faithful by my comments.
In the building of the Unibody at British Pressed Steel, there are differences between alpines and Tigers.
TAC has compiled a list of these differences and they look to see if some or all of them are present in the car under inspection.
One example, Tiger never had a battery box installed, so there should be no sign of spot welds or box having been installed.
TAC has compiled a list of these differences and they look to see if some or all of them are present in the car under inspection.
One example, Tiger never had a battery box installed, so there should be no sign of spot welds or box having been installed.
Scotty
Silver Level Sponsor
I've always wondered, can a non-stock Tiger be TAC'd, that is a Tiger that is the body is the real deal but it doesn't have the numbers matching 260 in it and instead has a 289, 302, whatever instead.
To me, a genuine survior would be one that rolled off the line with the correct drivetrain installed and numbers matching on the original frame, original steering setup and all. I would not consider a restoration that body swapped an Alpine as an actual 'survivor'.
But I'm a picky fk. I'm also a hopeless romantic, so be gentle with me.
To me, a genuine survior would be one that rolled off the line with the correct drivetrain installed and numbers matching on the original frame, original steering setup and all. I would not consider a restoration that body swapped an Alpine as an actual 'survivor'.
But I'm a picky fk. I'm also a hopeless romantic, so be gentle with me.
I'm with you Scotty -Mines an original RHD and there weren't many of those -Karl
Acollin
Platinum Level Sponsor
There seems to be a lot of smoke and mirrors at this juncture. I love the body line verification, but what if there is a “legitimate” tiger ( in all reasonable ways) )that had rust in the battery area— can it be restored (welded in rust repair) and TAC give them the OK?
I guess this would be an important part of buying and selling and establishing pricing. Original owner cars are pretty hard to find these days and if they kept maintenance and repair records ( like my father in law did with his Oldsmobile- spiral notebook in the glove box, recording even every gas fill up).
A pretty interesting question for me would be: how many original cars still in the possession of the original owner who could verify that their car is the real deal.
What happened to Andy Rooney’s tiger? I ask because the story goes that he bought one new. Anybody out there buy a tiger new?
I guess this would be an important part of buying and selling and establishing pricing. Original owner cars are pretty hard to find these days and if they kept maintenance and repair records ( like my father in law did with his Oldsmobile- spiral notebook in the glove box, recording even every gas fill up).
A pretty interesting question for me would be: how many original cars still in the possession of the original owner who could verify that their car is the real deal.
What happened to Andy Rooney’s tiger? I ask because the story goes that he bought one new. Anybody out there buy a tiger new?
Yes a non stock car can get a TAC. Mine did. ( non original 260, Minilite wheels, repaint to Carnival Red from Forest Green, aftermarket LAT 79 hood (not an original LAT hood)) except for the first, ALL changes I am happy to have.
The process has 3 independent inspectors look over the car. If they agree that there is enough evidence on the shell in question to say that it started life as a Tiger and not an Alpine, then it gets a sticker.
Bare shells have been TAC'd. Its all about answering the question
"Did this body shell begin life with a TIGER VIN or an Alpine VIN?"
The process has 3 independent inspectors look over the car. If they agree that there is enough evidence on the shell in question to say that it started life as a Tiger and not an Alpine, then it gets a sticker.
Bare shells have been TAC'd. Its all about answering the question
"Did this body shell begin life with a TIGER VIN or an Alpine VIN?"
Warren
Bronze Level Sponsor
They've moved the chess pieces all over.
I recall a former drag car that failed was brought back and pictures sent to Tom H. and they approved a car no VIN no JAL no Cal. State assigned # .
Then there was a car that I almost bought was spun into a center divider at speed and needed every panel but the front left and the firewall replaced.
After 7 or 8 years at Tigers United or club meetings and 5 cars done that I had my hit dog finger's the local guys shoot me away now ...
BTW the TAC ed wreck is still waiting a restoration. I'm afraid it's missed boat of Non-Diminishing return
I recall a former drag car that failed was brought back and pictures sent to Tom H. and they approved a car no VIN no JAL no Cal. State assigned # .
Then there was a car that I almost bought was spun into a center divider at speed and needed every panel but the front left and the firewall replaced.
After 7 or 8 years at Tigers United or club meetings and 5 cars done that I had my hit dog finger's the local guys shoot me away now ...
BTW the TAC ed wreck is still waiting a restoration. I'm afraid it's missed boat of Non-Diminishing return
Acollin
Platinum Level Sponsor
So , based on what I am hearing, when one pays up for an “honest” Tiger, it is hard to know if you bought an “honest” Tiger.
Question to ASM 109 : If my body shell began life with a Tiger vin and I have a slant 6 dodge motor with a 3 speed column shift, it can be called a Tiger?
Question to ASM 109 : If my body shell began life with a Tiger vin and I have a slant 6 dodge motor with a 3 speed column shift, it can be called a Tiger?
alpine_64
Donation Time
Yes .. they are looking for evidence of the pressed steel tiger shel and then the specific modifications and methodologies Jensen used to complete the body.
The mechanical drivline has nothing to do with the verification of the body.
No that would be a miracle. j/k Yes it would be a Tiger. Same as a Mustang with a Small block Chevy is still a Mustang. A Mustang in poor taste but a Mustang. Heck, a Tiger with an alpine engine and trans would still be a Tiger.
No car has to be a 99 point concours winner to be considered a real "fill in the blank"
Cars range from basket case to Pebble Beach winner. They are all still the same marque and model. Some are way more desireable and valuable than others.
No car has to be a 99 point concours winner to be considered a real "fill in the blank"
Cars range from basket case to Pebble Beach winner. They are all still the same marque and model. Some are way more desireable and valuable than others.
FWIW, my understanding is that the TAC inspectors will never say "this car did not start its life as a Tiger", only that they are unable to make a determination. The choices are "left the factory as a Tiger" or "not sure".
alpine_64
Donation Time
Just because it's an original owner doesnt mean it's not a rebody.... "Alger" ....a rusted car or damaged car can get VIN swapped.... It's happened .
There are also examples of Tigers with Tiger body and Tiger VIN but they have been swapped .. mkii VIN on MKI...and MKIa vins on MKI cars and vice versa.... The inspectors will authenticate the body...but not the VIN and JAL inconsistencies.
These things happen in the Alpine world too.... Generally people don't care as it's not a vamue issue .. people just want a straight rust free car...
But there is an example of a body swap that did causes issues.. by the long term owner (2 year old car) which had a very important history ... The owner used it as a daily car ...drove it on snow and salt.. parked it outside.. and it rusted badly.... This was the 2 X Sebing 12h Harrington... That sadly was rebodied in the early 2000s for ease and finical reasons.. but in doing so wiped away the original shell and it's history ( sadly the onwer crushed it when they realised it could be an issue... If they just keet the rusted shell... After the rebody that would have worked out well)...
That car was rebodied with the incorrect body for the car it was....
So being an original owner or long term owner doesn't guarantee authenticity... When they were cheap cars. Owners often just did the most practical way of getting themselves back on the road....less an issue now...but 1970-90s... Quite a bit of rebody action