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Gearbox Grinding

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
So here's my goofy problem. I've driven my SIV (1725, 32/36 with all-synchro gearbox), professionally rebuilt about 7 years ago with roughly 50 miles on it. It was left sitting on an incline for a period of time where the clutch was stuck and the shop had to 'break' the clutch loose. On top of rebuilding the brakes they installed a new MC/SC from SS and flushed the lines.

The last two times I drove it would shift fine and then would start whining - the gears grinding and the car still moving after I push in the clutch and (thought I was) putting it in neutral. I say thought because I'm holding down the clutch and moving the stick and the car was still grinding but moving under it's own power.

Brought it to a stop at the stoplight and either I could re-engage 1st with no problem or I would have to drop into 2nd to synch the gearbox and then I could put it back in first.

So far it has only done this twice when I've driven a few miles. It'll act goofy at about the halfway point of my journey (about 2 miles and all street, no highways) and once I get the gearbox sync'd it'll behave. It's happened twice. Outside of that, the gearbox shifts fine.

It could very well be operator error on my part (I taught myself how to drive stick) and I think maybe the opening I cut for it in the carpet isn't big enough and maybe the carpet is somehow pulling the stick so it comes out of the gear. I haven't checked the obvious, which is lack of oil because it has leaked. The shop put 80/90 in there and I'm going to drain it and put straight 30W in. I had no idea where the heck to put oil in the gearbox until I read it this morning in the workshop manual. Using a bolt to check the level in the gearbox is a new one on me.

Beyond that, the car runs very well (albeit rich, Colortune is in it's immediate future) beyond a goofy issue where once I get somewhere it takes a minute to start it for some reason. But once it fires up, it's all gold again.

Is there anything I'm missing or should know? Because it's a popular item to note, I did check the thrust washers. They look fine.

Thanks in advance, gang!
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
Lots of possibilities there.

Sounds like the clutch might not be fully engaging. Were all the clutch parts inspected / replaced 50 miles ago when the gearbox was rebuilt?
Make sure the clutch slave bleeder is on top. Try bleeding the clutch hydraulics.
Which brake fluid is in the clutch system?
80/90 is not the right oil for the gearbox.
Who did the gearbox rebuild? Hopefully not the shop that put 80/90 oil in the gearbox.
How did they break the clutch free?

If the car is sitting on level ground, you can fill the gearbox until it starts leaking from the fill hole. It is full at that point.

Mike
 

bulldurham

Platinum Level Sponsor
The wsm does say 30w oil but I don't see any reason that 75/90 gear oil would cause the problems mentioned.
External clutch linkage and hydraulics or pressure plate/disc assembly seems more likely.
Was a new pilot bearing installed ?
 

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
Hi Mike, how's it going? Answers are in bold:

Lots of possibilities there.

Sounds like the clutch might not be fully engaging. Were all the clutch parts inspected / replaced 50 miles ago when the gearbox was rebuilt?

Yes

Make sure the clutch slave bleeder is on top. Try bleeding the clutch hydraulics.

It is. I'll try that once I get a response from you to my answers here.

Which brake fluid is in the clutch system?

Brake fluid is correct for my 'Girling' system.

80/90 is not the right oil for the gearbox.

I was going through the receipts and noticed that too. I'm going to drain it and put it straight 30W. It has been leaking a little so I'm kind of assuming that there might be little to no oil in the gearbox. The oil currently in the gearbox is Castrol 80w-90.

Who did the gearbox rebuild? Hopefully not the shop that put 80/90 oil in the gearbox.

I'll have to dig up the receipt but it was an actual Transmission Shop and was doing a lot of British transmissions at the time mine was rebuilt. It was not this shop.

How did they break the clutch free?

They put the back of the car up on a jack, started the car and used centrifugal force to separate the clutch from the flywheel. I might be saying it wrong but that's what I remember. I remember the mechanic saying it got unstuck pretty easy.


If the car is sitting on level ground, you can fill the gearbox until it starts leaking from the fill hole. It is full at that point.

Thanks for telling me this! I have been confused with the fill spot on the gearbox to be on the sidewall like it is. I'm sloowwwlllyy coming around to accepting this as normal lol. It just looks strange to me.

Mike
 

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
The wsm does say 30w oil but I don't see any reason that 75/90 gear oil would cause the problems mentioned.
I heard something about certain oils being able to destroy the brass in the synchromesh setup and that has me abit worried right now.
External clutch linkage and hydraulics or pressure plate/disc assembly seems more likely.
Was a new pilot bearing installed ?
Yup! Was put in by the transmission shop that rebuilt it.
 

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
I don’t know if this matters or not but the cap for the Clutch MC is broken. I took it off and it’s full. Going to put a Coke bottle cap on it.
 

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
Did it ever run/shift totally normally after the rebuild?

Yes, it ran perfect after the rebuild but I had issues on my end, it had to stay parked for awhile and that became a long while. Couldn’t be helped and no, I didn’t go to prison lol. First thought that came to my mind while writing this lol.
 

Alpine 1789

SAOCA President
Diamond Level Sponsor
Scotty: Just for future reference, the clutch sticking to the flywheel when the car has sat too long is a common issue. Fortunately, it is also an easy one to fix yourself. The next time this happens, start the car in neutral with some room in front and let it warm up. Shut it off, put it in 1st, and immediately turn the key again. The stuck clutch will pull the car forward and the car will restart, breaking the flywheel loose. It is a little scary the first time, but pretty simple.

The first time this happened to me was in the early 80's, well before this club and the internet. I put the car on jack stands, removed the transmission and freed the clutch manually. That was a weekend's work for what should have been a 5-minute job. This forum makes owning an Alpine so much easier than it used to be! At least for this novice mechanic.
 

Mike O'D

Gold Level Sponsor
Drain and re-fill with the correct oil before you drive it anymore. It may or may not be contributing to the problem, but it's not correct.
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
To break the clutch disc free of the flywheel, also depress the clutch pedal before re-starting the car.

Mike
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
The clutch doesn't always break free immediately. If you have this problem again, do as recommended above and be sure to have some run-out area in front of you in case something weird happens like the key falling out of the ignition.
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
I blocked all my wheels and applied the handbrake when I broke mine free. Avoided the car going anywhere, though I had plenty of space if it did.
 

alpine_64

Donation Time
Always goid if its a very long store to use a broom against the steering wheel to depress the clutch.

Iirc in the depths of my memory sone of the early series cars also had a provision to latch the pedal in the depressed position.
 

hartmandm

Moderator
Diamond Level Sponsor
Is it fair to say these issues have been occurring consistently since the shop replaced the clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder?
 

RootesRooter

Donation Time
So was it a clutch or a brake MC that was replaced? Seems odd for a brand new cap to break.

Did I miss it or did no one mention the possibility of the clutch slave being re-installed on the wrong side of the bellhousing? Or not completely bled.
 

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
I’m working on it today, sorry. Had a few things come up on my end out of nowhere that I had to deal with first.
 

Scotty

Silver Level Sponsor
Is it fair to say these issues have been occurring consistently since the shop replaced the clutch master cylinder and clutch slave cylinder?

It’s happened only twice but given that it would be fair to say, yes. I’m going to drain, fill it with 30W today and take it for a drive.
 

sunalp

Diamond Level Sponsor
From what I understand the 80/90 gear oil contains something like sulphur which will destroy
the brass synchros in a Rootes transmission. Perhaps, and especially since the car was sitting for a while,
is what happened and why you're getting some grinding.
 
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