Floor repairs

Lester · Mar 19, 2007

Alright, I know what needs to be done with my floor. I need to strip the car, have it dipped, and cut out the entire floor, weld in a new one, etc., etc...
What about in the meantime? I just want to buy a couple more years. I have stripped my interior. The seat rails are not very soundly mounted, due to rust. The driver's side floor has quite a few small holes, and a few I might be able to get a finger through. The rear "seat", tunnel, firewall, and side rails, all seem quite good. My thought is that cleaning the floor, and using a rust converter, will buy me some time. Here is where I really need advice; I know pop-rivet patches are shunned, but do they have a temporary use? What about sound/heat insulating material? Will they promote rust or help deter it? I'm thinking about putting in a cheap carpet, so I won't get too comfy and forget about the bad floor. Thanks all, Lester

jumpinjan · Mar 19, 2007

3M used to sell a heavy gauge aluminum tape to patch holes & other sharp rusty sheetmetal and then spray the whole area with Body Schutes. It work & looked good & was a cheap alternative to anything trying to pop-rivet patches it. Check with 3M.
Jan

Bill Blue · Mar 19, 2007

I really don't see how aluminum tape is superior to a pop rivet repair. Certainly can't be as strong. At least pop rivets are classified as a "repair". Don't think tape over rusty metal can be anything other than a "coverup".

Bill

mikephillips · Mar 20, 2007

Having been down that road before I think the question you want to ask yourself is, how good a temporary repair do you want?? The problem is that if it's too good you're tempted to leave it longer which can ultimately increase the amount of work needed to properly fix it since rusted metal left in place will continue to rust and spread. And you still need to form the metal to fit that area, seal it, and put some coating over it to protect from moisture. So pop rivets will work, but do you really want to go that route??

Lester · Mar 20, 2007

I think if I did a pop-rivet patch, it would be a relatively small one near the pedals, in the worst spot. What I really want to do, but don't know if it's wise, is after I seal the floor to glue down heat/noise treatment, and then lightly glue a new carpet. Is it unwise to glue to a potentially leaky floor? And what about drain holes? Should there be any? Thanks again, Lester

Tom H · Mar 20, 2007

Why not do a pop rivet patch and then put a layer of fiberglas and resin over the whole area. Makes it stronger and waterproof. On miine it has held up for 20 years.

Tom H

Wombat · Mar 20, 2007

If you do go with the pop rivet patch, make sure you seal both sides of the panel so water cannot get between the two layers of metal. DPO didn't do this on my car and it continued to rust. Theeventual repair was more extensive.

jumpinjan · Mar 20, 2007

To me, drilling holes, buying the right size rivets, loading the rivet gun and setting the rivet is a lot of work and they look like *CENSORED**CENSORED**CENSORED**CENSORED*.
If you want a steel patch made (please don't stoop low enough to use an aluminum road sign......I have seen it done before!) just tack weld the *CENSORED**CENSORED**CENSORED**CENSORED*er in and be done with it.
Please don't use fiberglass either. I know it is very tempting to do. Believe me, fiberglass doesn't last either (I have seen it done on Alpines too!)

V6 JOSE · Mar 20, 2007

Why not do it RIGHT the first time?? Unless you don't intend to keep the car very long. Patching a job instead of doing it right the first time, only makes you work twice and even more the second time.

It might take a bit of work to do it right, but you will feel better about it after you've done it right. It will make the car worth more money, and you won't have another Sunbeamer cursing you, when they find your short cut.

Jose

skywords · Mar 20, 2007

Just keep driving it and buy another to restore. This is the solution that I settled on. The restored Series II I purchased has some black substance on the floors. Not sure what it is maybe something like Rino Liner that is used in pickup beds. It seems like a good moister bearier or maybe moister trap? Time will tell. Good luck on whatever you do.

Rick

Alpineracer8 · Mar 21, 2007

Lester:

Hold the presses...I have some patch panels that I bought from one of the Sunbeam places that I don't need anymore. If memory serves, they are the parts of the floor located under the seats (for both sides of the car). I was in my storage building just the other day and found them and wondered whether or not to keep them or sell them. I would have bought them for a Series V but I'll bet they are close enough that they would work in your Series III.

E-mail me at <awtiger@cox.net> or pm me back if you're interested.

Thanks,

Alpine Bob · Mar 21, 2007

skywords said:
The restored Series II I purchased has some black substance on the floors. Not sure what it is maybe something like Rino Liner that is used in pickup beds. It seems like a good moister bearier or maybe moister trap? Time will tell. Good luck on whatever you do.

Rick

It could be POR15, I used that on the floors of Judy's Sea Crest Green Series II, it's been holding great, no further rust has come thru yet after about 3 or so years.

Lester · Mar 21, 2007

Thanks for all of your opinions...I really don't see how a patch might slow me down later. Why would a patched floor take longer to cut out of the car than a hole-ridden floor? The whole floor pan is eventually coming out. I just want to enjoy it a little before the car lays in pieces for who knows how long.
I bought some "plastic metal" made by bondo; I thought for the smaller holes it might due the trick. Do you all glue carpets/pads down? or is there a good reason for leaving them loose? And for the record, this is my only classic, and I don't plan on ever getting rid of it. Thanks all, Lester
-Keep the ideas coming; I can't get enough of them...

burgy711 · Mar 21, 2007

I agree with Jose and Jan. Do it right the first time and don't screw around with it. There is a safety factor here too............ as you buckle yourself into the seat each time you go out to drive think about the rails and floors you just buckled yourself on to......... I did all four floor sections on my Alpine along with new seat rails and I sure feel better every time my wife and I buckle in for a ride.

Wombat · Mar 21, 2007

Lester

I do not glue the carpets down. I have them clipped onto studs screwed into the floor. That way, when they get wet, I can remove them and hang them out to dry. That way the repaired floor won't rust again.

V6 JOSE · Mar 21, 2007

Lester said:
Thanks for all of your opinions...I really don't see how a patch might slow me down later. Why would a patched floor take longer to cut out of the car than a hole-ridden floor? The whole floor pan is eventually coming out. I just want to enjoy it a little before the car lays in pieces for who knows how long.
I bought some "plastic metal" made by bondo; I thought for the smaller holes it might due the trick. Do you all glue carpets/pads down? or is there a good reason for leaving them loose? And for the record, this is my only classic, and I don't plan on ever getting rid of it. Thanks all, Lester
-Keep the ideas coming; I can't get enough of them...

I would almost bet the farm, that every guy that sold an Alpine with half fast patched floors, said the same thing. I'm just going to temporarily patch this rusted out floor, and when I get a bit more time, I will fix it right. How many guys on this board have bought an Alpine that was represented as being in good shape, then only to find, much to their chagrin, the had been missled about what they were about to buy. I can't remember exactly what they said they found, but if you were to do a survey, I'm sure that you'd find more than five.

Since the car is yours, you can do it any way you want, but I would think safety, as was already mentioned, would be of more importance than just patching it so you can drive it sooner.

Jose

Lester · Mar 21, 2007

While were on the subject, who is still making replacement floors? and how much are they? What about seat rails? I should reiterate that the floors are actually quite sound, other than directly under the driver's feet. My initial question was not "How long can I live with holes in my floor?", it was: "What is the best treatment In the meantime?" It may be 6 months, it may be 6 years. That's really beside the point. I'm sorry to those who have been lied to in the past when buying cars, but as I said, I am not selling this car.

V6 JOSE · Mar 22, 2007

Lester,

I want to apologize, because I didn't mean to imply that you would misrepresent any vehicle you might sell.

My point was that many times a guy will not fix his car correctly when he first gets the car, then years later, he finds he no longer needs/wants it, so he sells it, not telling the prospective customer what lies hidden under all the nice paint. He doesn't want to have to go back to fix the things he didn't do the first time around, so he sells it like it is.

I think that, especially if it isn't a big repair that needs to be done, fixing damage to a car correctly, is the best thing to do.

Jose

Jeff Scoville · Mar 22, 2007

If it's just some pinholes near the pedals, seal them up however you want and drive the hell out of her!
Last thing you want to do is start cutting floors out that can be repaired, firstly because its alot of work. Secondly because the next thing you know it will be 4 years later and the car will be Completely torn apart and you'll lose interest. Thirdly, did I say it's alot of work?
Cmon guys, obviously if it's a flintstone mobile it needs floors, and Now!
If it's a case of just needing to seal the holes and reinforce the area a bit then just do so.
I guess what I'm saying is that if I had a few pinholes, (or even fist holes) in my fenders or quarter panels would I cut the entire panel off and replace it?
There wouldn't be too many Sunbeams left if this were the case.
Complete panel replacement is NOT the only answer.
Make it as safe as you can, as quick as you can, to last as long as it can.

Lester · Mar 23, 2007

No worries... it's a good argument for the purists. The minute I can afford new floors, I'll put them in. I would not consider driving the thing if it were unsound. After all, I'm not getting on the freeway, just annoying some cows on the country roads. I will post pics of the floor soon
Thanks all, Lester