Engine buiding again

[mr.vman]

I now have the Mustang 2 bellhousing, Ford T5 trans. For parts, 1984 Bronco 2 with 2.8. Engine is out, this afternoon hope to have the heads off. Questions; Do the rods and crank need to be shot peened?
Pistons, find the "Sealed Power" pistons, no need for the after
market high compression pistons? Compression height not an
issue with the aftermarket pistons? (all the same?)
What about using the rebuild kits on E-Bay?
Heads? What to do. I would like to have the heads ported, 2.9 valves installed. All the "Jose", and list modifications done. Of course one of "Jose's" cam grinds (Delta ?) also. I use the stock 2.8 springs and retainers? Should I buy new springs 2.8 springs? Where to get the heads ported and valve work done? Hesitant to start calling around to local speed shops to have head work done (they would probably laugh me out of the shop). Looking for a good source for the 2.8 head work. The heads will need to milled, .030" (or how much?), the intake manifold will have to be angle milled. A source for angle milling? I know this has been posted before, looking for the latest information. Once again thanks for the time and information. Jose, could not do this without your work! Steve V. 2.8 In Arizona

 

[kmathis]

Hi,

I am sure there will be a response from others on this, but here goes:
Shot peaning...I am not quite sure about the value of this procedure, your machine shop might be able to answer that one. I used my stock rods and crank without shot peaning.
Stock Sealed Power pistons...Napa Auto Parts. Compression height is about .025 shorter than stock. I milled my block to make up for it, however I did not mill my heads...most of the guys have milled the heads .030, and that is what I would recommend.
Camshaft; Delta Camshaft in Tacoma Washington...Ask for the Jose Grind. You can send your own stock cam and they will re-grind for around 100 bucks, and if you send them your rockers and lifters they will remanufacture those as well for a very reasonable cost.
I would stay away from rebuild kits on e-bay. Stick with Napa Auto Parts, they can get everything that you need.
Jose, can tell you about the guy in Washington state that can port, polish, install the larger valves and seats as well as new bronze guides. It is a bit pricey and takes a couple of months, but all of the power from these 2.8 motors are in the head work. Buy new valve springs, and keepers; I am pretty sure that they are the same as the 2.9 valves.

I had a blast building my engine, and you won't be sorry that you spent the money, because you car will haul a$$. Fun, Fun, fun.

 

[pcmenten]

About milling the block vs. milling the heads - I think the reason the pistons are .025" down in the hole is because the original engine was built with steel shim head gaskets with about .010" of thickness. From what I read, you need about .035" of clearance between the piston and the head.

If you have too much clearance between the piston top and the head you start to run into detonation issues. When you rebuild with a .045" thick composition head gasket and you have pistons .025 down the hole, that's a total of .070" of clearance.

I think Kelly Mathis did it right by milling the block to eliminate the clearance.

Here's an interesting combo - use the 2.8 pistons with the 2.9 crank.

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Steve,

I wouldn´t use forged pistons unless you intend on using a power adder (blower, turbo, nitrous oxide). They are expensive, and you won´t be getting more than about 9.5 to 1 compression, even if you deck the block and mill the heads. To get maximum compression with a stock type piston, you´ll need to , both mill the heads .030" and deck the block the same. Remember; these engines are of a thin wall design, so you don´t want to take off any more than that.

I think Kelly´s advice about not using a build kit from ebay is good. You want to know you are getting quality parts. I recommend buying new 2.9 V6 springs, along with the 2.9 V6 valves You can use the old valve retainers, since they don´t wear out.. I don´t know if I am going to recommend my head porter again, because, even though he does wonderful work, he has been taking too long to turn the heads around. I have a customer that has sent him a set of heads about six months ago, and he still hasn´t sent them back yet. It is a shame that the best artisans take so much time to get things done. It pains me to say this because we really need a great head porter so we can make our Alpines haul. When you mill the heads, block, or both .030", you will need a competent machinist to also mill the surfaces of the intake manifold too, so that it will fit the engine again. He has to do some math to get it right.

I was reading some posts on another forum, and I read that the Capri guys have only been able to get a max of 180 hp from as radical an engine as they could build. I can tell you why that is so. The Capri guys are building their engines, with a cam that was designed for a Capri 2.6 V6. The 2.6 and the 2.8 V6 heads are totally different, so they don´t breathe the same. The 2.6 V6 has a better intake configuration than the exhaust side, so the cam timing should favor the exhaust side, to bring them into a better relationship. The 2.8 V6 has the exact opposite situation. The intake configuration is more restrictive than the exhaust side, so the cam timing should favor the intake side. If you use a 2.6 cam in a 2.8 engine, you won´t get what you could get if you used a cam that is made for it.

When you order your cam from Delta, just ask for the V6 Jose grind, and they will know what you are talking about. If your engine is an early version (1974-1979), I recommend buying a Ranger cam core (1983-1985) and having them grind down the cam journals to the the early cam spec, so you can end up with a stiffer cam core. The early engines used to break cams quite often. They know what they need to do already. I have spoken with them and they know why we do it.

I assume that you will be using the Offenhouser manifold and Holley carb, right? If you do all this work, and still keep the old two barrel, you won´t get the power you chould, if you used the four barrel.

I can´t wait to hear how your car runs when you finish it.

Jose

I now have the Mustang 2 bellhousing, Ford T5 trans. For parts, 1984 Bronco 2 with 2.8. Engine is out, this afternoon hope to have the heads off. Questions; Do the rods and crank need to be shot peened?
Pistons, find the "Sealed Power" pistons, no need for the after
market high compression pistons? Compression height not an
issue with the aftermarket pistons? (all the same?)
What about using the rebuild kits on E-Bay?
Heads? What to do. I would like to have the heads ported, 2.9 valves installed. All the "Jose", and list modifications done. Of course one of "Jose's" cam grinds (Delta ?) also. I use the stock 2.8 springs and retainers? Should I buy new springs 2.8 springs? Where to get the heads ported and valve work done? Hesitant to start calling around to local speed shops to have head work done (they would probably laugh me out of the shop). Looking for a good source for the 2.8 head work. The heads will need to milled, .030" (or how much?), the intake manifold will have to be angle milled. A source for angle milling? I know this has been posted before, looking for the latest information. Once again thanks for the time and information. Jose, could not do this without your work! Steve V. 2.8 In Arizona

 

[mr.vman]

My plan as of now, is to use the Bronco 2 block and the Mustang 2 front parts. This will give me the larger cam and better crank? What to do about head work? Jose if your "porter" takes several months, not a problem. Are there any other good 2.8 cylinder head "porters" out there? Perhaps the "porter"/head work person can also do the cuts on the Offenhauser manifold? I have body work that needs to get done while I wait for the heads and?
From the posts, check for cracks, leave the crank alone (of course regrind), new rod bolts, balance, resize, no shot peening needed. New rod bolts also. The 2.9 valve spring retainers are the same as the 2.8? Should I go to Ford and order new 2.9 Ford springs or?
Also learned that the Sealed Power pistons are TRW. Sealed Power bought TRW, at least that is what my local parts person told me. On the steel cam gear. Cloyes makes a steel set? Stay away from the aluminum cam gear? Thanks for the help and time on this. Getting head work could be the problem. Steve V. 2.8 in Arizona

 

[sd_pace]

the head openings should already match the Offy openings,....at least when I match mine up the were right to size (heads are 75tm) I just went in and smoothed them on the head side to match my valve work

 

[V6 JOSE]

Hi Steve,

Thr Ranger crank has radius fillets, which makes it stronger, but I have used an early crank on my turbo engine, without any problems whatsoever. That crank has over two hundred thousand hard miles on it and it is still good. That crank has been in a couple of rebuilds, and is why it has so many miles. The rings go away after about 80,000 hard racing miles with the turbo, so I freshened the engine up at that time.

The rods don´t need to be shot peened, unless you´d like to have them done. What I do recommend, is using new ARP rod bolts for a 289 Ford V8. They will fit, but you need to make sure that you have the rod bolt holes counter sunk enough to clear the radius under the rod bolt head, so that it tightens against the head of the bolt, and not the radius under the head. I usually knife edge the counter weights and deburr the crank. If you decide to shot peen the rods, I recommend shot peening the crank too. Of course, you will need to have the rods resized.

I highly recommend dynamicall balancing the reciprocating parts, including the flywheel, pressure plate and crank pulley at the same time.

Anytime you are going to build a high performance engine, you should magnaflux everything (heads, block, crank, rods).

Order new 2.9 V6 springs, but not necessarily from Ford. NAPA has quality parts, so I would trust them. You can use the stock 2.8 V6 retainers, as they will fit the 2.9 V6 springs.


TRW-Sealed Power pistons are great quality parts, so that is what I´d use. If you can get all steel timing gears, I would go with that. If all you can get is a set that has the aluminum cam gear, use that.

As far as the head porter is concerned, I would talk to him and ask him how long it will take to get them finished. Tell him that you´ll need them in a couple of months, so you can get your car on the road.

I would have a machine shop mill the intake manifold for you. Just tell them how much you took off of each surface and they´ll know how much to mill off of each surface.They deal with this kind of thing all the time. It may cost a bit more, but you don´t want your manifold ruined by someone who doesn´t really know what they are ding. I have had customers that have had this problem before.

Have fun building your engine. It will be a lot more satisfying when you get it running and you know you did it yourself.

Jose

My plan as of now, is to use the Bronco 2 block and the Mustang 2 front parts. This will give me the larger cam and better crank? What to do about head work? Jose if your "porter" takes several months, not a problem. Are there any other good 2.8 cylinder head "porters" out there? Perhaps the "porter"/head work person can also do the cuts on the Offenhauser manifold? I have body work that needs to get done while I wait for the heads and?
From the posts, check for cracks, leave the crank alone (of course regrind), new rod bolts, balance, resize, no shot peening needed. New rod bolts also. The 2.9 valve spring retainers are the same as the 2.8? Should I go to Ford and order new 2.9 Ford springs or?
Also learned that the Sealed Power pistons are TRW. Sealed Power bought TRW, at least that is what my local parts person told me. On the steel cam gear. Cloyes makes a steel set? Stay away from the aluminum cam gear? Thanks for the help and time on this. Getting head work could be the problem. Steve V. 2.8 in Arizona